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BIKES SHOULD SHARE CARPOOL LANES say BMF

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Sadie
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 30 Mar 2005    Post subject: BIKES SHOULD SHARE CARPOOL LANES say BMF Reply with quote

30 March 2005

News that Transport Secretary Alastair Darling is considering a new ‘congestion-busting carpool lane on the M25’ has led to the British Motorcyclists Federation asking that motorcycles be included in such a scheme.

Following approaches from the BMF over the trial of a High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lane on the M1, the Highways Agency confirmed that motorcycles would be allowed in these lanes, so despite the subtle name change to ‘carpool lane’, the BMF still expect the same rule to apply.

Speaking after contacting the Highways Agency, BMF Government Relations Executive, Richard Olliffe, said that he was awaiting official confirmation but fully expected that motorcycles would be able to use such lanes.

His main concern now was that the apparent renaming of HOV lanes to ‘carpool lanes’ may mean that only vehicles registered to a national carpool system will have legal access to carpool lanes with enforcement carried out by automatic number plate recognition systems. Richard said: “It’s important that we get this clarified because if electronic enforcement is used, either all bikes will need to be registered or more likely, exempted, but allowed access.”

The Highways Agency is to look at whether a carpool lane could be installed on the M25 between junctions 12 - 15 (M3 - M4), to encourage drivers to share cars, reduce congestion, and help the environment.

The section of motorway under consideration is already being widened to provide either five or six lanes in each direction and the carpool lane could help make the best possible use of this additional capacity say the Highways Agency.

Note to editors:

The BMF has been lobbying for the wider use of bus lanes for many years and sees HOV lanes, or carpool lanes, in the same way. Motorcycles and scooters are the ideal personal transport vehicle and can therefore have a dramatic effect on reducing congestion.

The DfT press release can be found on: https://www.dft.gov.uk/pns/DisplayPN.cgi?pn_id=2005_0037
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.....
Quote Me Happy



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PostPosted: 17:57 - 30 Mar 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it makes perfect sense to let bikes use these lanes. Cars with 2 people in are 50% full (excluding the fact you can sqeeze in a 5th). Bikes with one person on are 50% full. That I think should entitle them to use High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes.
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palmer
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 30 Mar 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

some bikes are 100% full
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 30 Mar 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadie wrote:
The Highways Agency is to look at whether a carpool lane could be installed on the M25 between junctions 12 - 15 (M3 - M4), to encourage drivers to share cars, reduce congestion, and help the environment.


Which translates as they are going to really screw up the flow of traffic for the majority of road users in the hope that a couple of people might car share.

Sadie wrote:
The section of motorway under consideration is already being widened to provide either five or six lanes in each direction and the carpool lane could help make the best possible use of this additional capacity say the Highways Agency.


Which is still well under what is required. A friend worked for what was the department of transport and they had surveyed the requirements and knew that it needed 9 lanes in each direction but did not dare announce it. So a decade later as they are only pussy footing around providing 2/3 of the required road space.

Joe wrote:
I think it makes perfect sense to let bikes use these lanes. Cars with 2 people in are 50% full (excluding the fact you can sqeeze in a 5th). Bikes with one person on are 50% full. That I think should entitle them to use High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes.


While I like the idea of using the HOV lanes, it is very dubious as to whether we have any real legitmate excuse to use them. At 30mph with a 2 second gap the space taken by a bike is not even 10% less than a car (about 95' compared to about 102'), so with 2 passengers the car is taking up far less road space per person, while the bike is not really any better than a Smart car.

Those in power trying to restrict peoples access to private transport are indulging in divide and conquer tactics and while we may gain in the short term, motorcyclists are a small minority who can be easily dumped on later.

All the best

Keith
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Sadie
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 30 Mar 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
While I like the idea of using the HOV lanes, it is very dubious as to whether we have any real legitmate excuse to use them.


It is very dubious as to whether bikes should be entitled to half the concessions the BMF and MAG have lobbied for (free parking for example), but as long as we have effective lobby groups with active members, we will continue to push the Highways Agency to see how far we can get.
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kasandrich
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 30 Mar 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith,

One could be forgiven for thinking you are very synicle(sp?) Laughing
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 16:12 - 31 Mar 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadie wrote:
It is very dubious as to whether bikes should be entitled to half the concessions the BMF and MAG have lobbied for (free parking for example), but as long as we have effective lobby groups with active members, we will continue to push the Highways Agency to see how far we can get.


I understand, but I just have this feeling that one day these things are going to come back and bite us hard.

Throw the effective bike lobby groups a few scraps and you have removed them from opposing measures to dump on road users, restricting it to car drivers (who have virtually no groups beyond the ABD). Later on bikes are easily mopped up when the truth is "discovered". All plays into the hands of those who seek to restrict private transport and who are happy to take a long term view and indulge in divide and conquer tactics.

I personally think that too much of the political foundations for measures to support riders are based on very dodgy grounds.

Maybe I am cynical, but as far as transport goes I just think the lunatics are running the asylum. How any piddling little group like Living Streets (formerly the Pedestrians Association) or Transport 2000 gets taken seriously I cannot understand, yet their mad schemes frequently seem to be taken seriously by the government dispite their inconsequential membership numbers (this board has more members than those 2 groups combined).

All the best

Keith
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jquinton
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 31 Mar 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

kasandrich wrote:
Keith,

One could be forgiven for thinking you are very synicle(sp?) Laughing


It could just be experience, a lot of bikers out there, very little notice taken of them.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 10:24 - 01 Apr 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Well, looks like they are not going to let bikes use bus lanes any time soon:-

https://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/londonnews/articles/17612314?version=1

This Is London wrote:

Move to let bikers use bus lanes delayed
By David Williams And Ross Lydall, Evening Standard
31 March 2005

Motorcyclists suffered a new blow today as plans to let them use London bus lanes were put on ice.

Riders have been using three bus lanes in a pilot scheme aimed at improving safety and speeding their trips by separating them from other traffic.

Motorcycle campaign groups had expected Transport for London TfL) to wrap up the trial by giving motorbikes and scooters free access to bus lanes across the capital. But Peter Hendy, TfL's managing director of surface transport, is announcing only that the current trial will be extended by a year.

The setback emerged as motorcyclists threatened to bring London to a halt if TfL proceeds with a separate proposal to make them pay the ?5 congestion charge.

Mr Hendy said there were " conflicting, strongly held views" on motorcycles in bus lanes. The trials - on East India Dock Road

(A13), Brixton Road (A23) and Finchley Road (A4) - were being extended because "the clarity of data is insufficient".

The London Cycling Campaign is concerned about motorcyclists speeding in bus lanes. But today Craig Carey-Clinch, of the Motor Cycle Industry Association, said: "There has been a 19 per cent reduction in casualties from letting motorcycles use bus lanes."

He said the trial results were only unclear because of roadworks in one lane. Meanwhile, the 40,000-member Motorcycle Action Group (Mag) said it was "closely monitoring" the proposal-to make bikers pay the congestion charge - revealed by the Evening Standard last week. The group warned of a "major" protest in central London if TfL decided to charge, and its president, Ian Mutch, said: " Motorcyclists feel betrayed."

Motorcycles are exempt from the charge as they are not considered to cause jams, but bikers were in almost 500 crashes last year in the charging zone. TfL's safety committee has suggested that making riders pay could cut the number killed or badly hurt by 40 per cent by 2010, as many would switch to cars or public transport. Charging would also raise ?750,000 a week.

The RAC Foundation and AA Motoring Trust are backing Mag. And Sir Richard Branson, whose Virgin company runs the Limobike "two-wheeled taxi" service, called the suggestion "ludicrous".

A TfL spokesman said Mayor Ken Livingstone would not back the safety committee. "The Mayor ... has no intention of making scooters and motorcycles pay," he said.


All the best

Keith
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Zoffo
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PostPosted: 10:54 - 01 Apr 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Hi

Well, luks like dey r not gwann 2 let novas use bus lanes ne time soon:-

https://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/londonnews/articles/17612314?version=1

dis iz London wrote:

Move 2 let yardies use bus lanes delayed
By David Williams an Ross Lydall, Evening Standard
31 March 2005

Motorcyclists suffered a new blow 2day az plans 2 let dem use London bus lanes were put on ice.

Riders ave bin uzin three bus lanes in a pilot scheme aimed at improving safety an tanking der trips by separating dem from ova traffic.

nova campaign groups had expected Transport 4 London TfL) 2 wrap op da trial by giving motorbikes an scooters free access 2 bus lanes across da capital. ba Peter Hendy, TfL's managing director ov surface transport, iz announcing only dat da current trial will be extended by a year.

da setback emerged az motorcyclists threatened 2 bring London 2 a halt if TfL proceeds wid a separate proposal 2 make dem pay da ?5 congestion charge.

Mr Hendy sed der were " conflicting, strongly held views" on motorcycles in bus lanes. da trials - on East India Dock yad

(A13), Brixton yad (A23) an Finchley yad (A4) - were being extended because "da clarity ov data iz insufficient".

da London Cycling Campaign iz concerned bout motorcyclists tanking in bus lanes. ba 2day Craig Carey-Clinch, ov da Motor Cycle Industry Association, sed: "der az bin a 19 per cent reduction in casualties from letting motorcycles use bus lanes."

He sed da trial results were only unclear because ov roadworks in one lane. Meanwhile, da 40,000-breadrin nova Action Group (Mag) sed it was "closely monitoring" da proposal-2 make yardies pay da congestion charge - revealed by da Evening Standard lst week. da group warned ov a "big time" protest in central London if TfL decided 2 charge, an itz president, Ian Mutch, sed: " Motorcyclists feel betrayed."

Motorcycles r exempt from da charge az dey r not considered 2 cause jams, ba yardies were in almost 500 oopsies lst year in da charging zone. TfL's safety committee az suggested dat making riders pay kud cut da number killed or badly hurt by 40 per cent by 2010, az many would switch 2 cars or public transport. Charging would also raise ?750,000 a week.

da RAC Foundation an AA Motoring Trust r backing Mag. an Sir Richard Branson, whose Virgin company runs da Limobike "two-wheeled taxi" service, called da suggestion "ludicrous".

A TfL spokesman sed Mayor Ken Livingstone would not bak da safety committee. "da Mayor ... az naa intention ov making scooters an motorcycles pay," he sed.


All da bezt

Keith


Shocked fook _me_even_local_government_have_been_chaved_
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Gracie Jones
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 01 Apr 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadie wrote:

It iz bare dubious az 2 whether novas shud be entitled 2 half da concessions da BMF an MAG ave lobbied 4 (free parking 4 example), ba az missions az we ave effective lobby groups wid active members, we will continue 2 push da Highways Agency 2 see ow far we kan get.


That is so funny - seeing Sadie talk like that. Something to cherish.
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Jrod
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 01 Apr 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree. Laughing
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Sadie
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 13:51 - 01 Apr 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gracie Jones wrote:
Sadie wrote:

It iz bare dubious az 2 whether novas shud be entitled 2 half da concessions da BMF an MAG ave lobbied 4 (free parking 4 example), ba az missions az we ave effective lobby groups wid active members, we will continue 2 push da Highways Agency 2 see ow far we kan get.


That is so funny - seeing Sadie talk like that. Something to cherish.


You are in SO much trouble, young man! Laughing
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