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Important mot update

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craigT19
Jolly Green Giant



Joined: 09 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Important mot update Reply with quote

Hey guys just thought i would let u know that as of now mot 'ers' have been instructed to ignore bs kite marks on exhaust pipes.

It is now at the testers descretion to fail u if he "belives" your bike to be louder than stock.

This is to crack down on fake bs tags and road legal cans with the baffles removed etc.

Within the next 4 weeks we have been told to expect a new noise tester in dB's along with a list of bike modules etc... if it reads more than 5 db's over what the manufacturer claims at 7k rpm we have to fail it.

You have been warned Thumbs Up
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mchaggis
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I take it you are given a suitably damped and soundproofed room to test in? Echoes from a confined space will ramp up the dBA level on a can rather a lot. Confused If it's just done in the yard, or even worse in the workshop, you'll be getting rather high readings.

Two problems though.

What if an untouched manufacturers can fails?
What if you can't get information from the manufacturer about how loud it is supposed to be?

Thanks for the update though. Thumbs Up
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craigT19
Jolly Green Giant



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PostPosted: 21:01 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

no idea mate, the sound tool fits over the end of the can, so echos shouldnt be a problem.

All cans are tested b4 put on bikes so failiure shouldnt be a problem... i think the 5db over rule is there due to possible baffle wear ect but if it does fail then its illegal anyways, in warrenty...then its a manufactuing issue.

out of warrenty? better get on ebay Laughing
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mchaggis
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just see potential fun trying to get any sort of meaningful noise emissions data out of the Hongdou Motor Corporation for my bike, ignoring the fact that it's far too loud for a normal 125 single. Whistle
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ditto with the MZ. It's the damn loudest 125 4t I've ever heard. Not as loud as when I get the race can though Very Happy
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instigator
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which is why I think, for bikes used on the road, exhausts with removeable baffles are a sensible purchase. Smile
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numark1
Scared of girls



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PostPosted: 21:59 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like i'll have to slip the "normal can" on for the test then. Neutral

Cheers for the heads up. Thumbs Up
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pipnet11
Brolly Dolly



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PostPosted: 22:39 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

My MOT guy is nearly deaf Laughing He used to race classic bikes with almost open pipes on them, so he isnt going to fail mine. Which is good cos theres nothing like a kite mark on my new silencer.
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have E Marks and BSAU Marks on my twin Jama exhausts.

So what happens in the case if you have twins then?
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mattsmith95
Traffic Copper



Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 08 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mechanic was telling me that when he MOT's a bike it's down to the sound of the pipes.



BTW, The price of an MOT is due to rise to £26 soon. Sick
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VFR400UK
Scooby Slapper



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PostPosted: 00:04 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tie a shoe lace around a sponge and shove it down the end of the exhaust. It might not run too well nor sound too pretty but it should get it through the test and is easy to remove after Thumbs Up
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Dam_buster
Crazy Courier



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PostPosted: 00:16 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

until the mechanic calls u and tells u a sponge just shot out the exhaust and hit him in the face Lmao!
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



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PostPosted: 02:06 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like we are back to shoving scouring pads up the exhaust for the MOT then Smile

Interesting factoid. If you take the end off a race can that is held together with allen bolts, a coke tin slides up in there nicely. On a bigger bike, a couple of miles sees said tin shredded to bits and spat out. Used to be quite a common dodge to get track day bikes through scruitineering with a rediculously loud exhaust on tracks with a noise limit.
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CBRnick
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 12:03 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Re: Important mot update Reply with quote

craigT19 wrote:
Hey guys just thought i would let u know that as of now mot 'ers' have been instructed to ignore bs kite marks on exhaust pipes.
Err, no.
The rules for the MOT were changed in April 2002, so your just three and a half years late with this breaking news on the 'important update'.
Good going bullet...

craigT19 wrote:
This is to crack down on fake bs tags and road legal cans with the baffles removed etc.
No again. Its to bring the MOT rules in line with Europe. The change came in April 2002 as a result of a rule made in Brussels.

craigT19 wrote:
Within the next 4 weeks we have been told to expect a new noise tester in dB's along with a list of bike modules etc... if it reads more than 5 db's over what the manufacturer claims at 7k rpm we have to fail it.
'We have been told' ?
Are you an MOT tester? If you are then please tell me where you work and Ill avoid the place. You clearly dont know what your saying and your handbook is going on four years out of date, during which time there have been a lot of changes.
If you dont even know that the MOT rules have changed, how the hell have you been giving MOT's for the last three and a half years.

There is NO specific decibel limit in an MOT, and also that is not how a decibel test is done. The test you describe would not be a legal test.
An legal decibel test is done as a rolling drive past test and the rev should be at 2/3rd of the engines rev range.
There has to be a minimum of 3(I think its 3, its a while since I read the regs) cubic metres in all directions of clear space around the vehicle for the entire duration of the roll past.
There is a lot more rules than that, but thats the basis of it.
I cant think of many MOT stations that have the space or the facilities to do legal Db tests.

The correct procedure for a Db test is laid out in Construction and Use regulations.
If you got prosecuted under construction and use regs and the Db test was done the way you suggest, the case would not stand in a court of law.

craigT19 wrote:
You have been warned Thumbs Up
Thanks, maybe you should put facts in your warning Thumbs Up

For the record, sinse April 2002, the MOT testers handbook has stated:

- An exhaust must be in good working order with no rust patches or leaks.
- It must NOT be marked 'Not for road use' or 'Track use only' or any similar mark.
- An exhaust must not be reasonably louder than a standard exhaust of the same age that is in good working order.

THat basicly makes it open to interpretation of the tester as to wether your can will pass an MOT or not.
There is no mention of a requirement for a kite mark or an EU stamp, therefore its not needed.

Its also worth noting, that if you get nicked for a loud can, the fact that the can passed an MOT is not a defense in court if it does not meet construction and use regs.

No more spreading false information please.
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Gracie Jones
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 31 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeeze, take it easy dude. So maybe he got it wrong, we all make a mistake now and then, no need to destroy the bloke.
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killa
Won't Shut Up



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can resolve all this bollox by getting to know the lads down the garage.
My huge can sailed through.
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Leggy_Girl
World Chat Champion



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PostPosted: 12:37 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBRnick, who put a bug up your ass? Neutral A simple, 'sorry mate, but actually you've got things a bit wrong. It's...' would suffice - not:
CBRnick wrote:
Are you an MOT tester? If you are then please tell me where you work and Ill avoid the place. You clearly dont know what your saying and your handbook is going on four years out of date, during which time there have been a lot of changes.
If you dont even know that the MOT rules have changed, how the hell have you been giving MOT's for the last three and a half years.


Learn some respect and maybe some manners. He was just passing on what he'd been told, in a job he's new to, and trying to help some people. Fair enough correct mistakes, but what happened to being friendly? Rolling Eyes
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 12:44 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Re: Important mot update Reply with quote

CBRnick wrote:
An legal decibel test is done as a rolling drive past test and the rev should be at 2/3rd of the engines rev range.
There has to be a minimum of 3(I think its 3, its a while since I read the regs) cubic metres in all directions of clear space around the vehicle for the entire duration of the roll past.


Of no relevance in the situation described, if they have just decided to update the MOT test rules (which could cause chaos with the computerisation at the same time). Exactly the same as the way the emissions test for a car MOT bears to resemblence to the tests used on cars for homologation.

No idea if the rules have changed to get MOT stations to do some kind of noise test. It would not surprise me, but I have not heard anything about it.

All the best

Keith
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R4nger
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

And your being friendly? Rolling Eyes
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CBRnick
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 12:55 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry.
It just gets up my nose when people post 'information' that could land people in trouble or with a large bill.

Would you want to have your car or bike tested by an MOT station that is using out of date rules, testers who dont have a clue what they are talking about and illegal Db tests ?

If you do fair enough. I dont.

Personaly Id see them out of business and in court today.
I cant do that though so Ill trash people who post incorrect, misleading and plain wrong informationwhich could result in someone elses misfortune in the cause of getting as little business to them as possible.

Kickstart wrote:
Of no relevance in the situation described, if they have just decided to update the MOT test rules

The rules have not been changed again.
And it is very relevant, because MOT stations do not have the space or facilities to carry out an legal Db test.
Any MOT station that claims to be carrrying out legal Db tests is lying unless they have a private road that is at least 7 metres wide to carry out the tests on.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBRnick wrote:
And it is very relevant, because MOT stations do not have the space or facilities to carry out an legal Db test.
Any MOT station that claims to be carrrying out legal Db tests is lying unless they have a private road that is at least 7 metres wide to carry out the tests on.


But there is no such thing as a legal Db test in this situation. Merely the official test done at homologation time, and further types done (occasionally) by the police. That the evidence is enough for the police to get a prosecution is rather different to the evidence required to not give you an MOT (should they decide to bring such a rule in) so no reason at all that the same test should be used.

As to the rules on MOT tests and BS stamps / E marks, yes that did change ages ago, although it was quite a bit later that they bothered to send letters to the MOT stations informing them of this change. My local station was not too happy as they would prefer not to be put in the situation of saying that something sounds too loud then them. Too subjective.

All the best

Keith
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CBRnick
Borekit Bruiser



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PostPosted: 13:54 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
they would prefer not to be put in the situation of saying that something sounds too loud then them. Too subjective.

We agree on this at least Smile
I know an MOT tester who is currently getting really pissed off with a biker whos bike he failed the MOT on these grounds (hes a bike rider himself so is a 'bike friendly' tester).

The bloke then took his bike to two other testing stations who passed it, the went to a soliciter and started a claim against the MOT centre my mate works at to reclain his money and get a written appology.
He hasnt got either yet but he isnt giving up easily.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 14:13 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

CBRnick wrote:
The bloke then took his bike to two other testing stations who passed it, the went to a soliciter and started a claim against the MOT centre my mate works at to reclain his money and get a written appology.
He hasnt got either yet but he isnt giving up easily.


Sounds like a bit of a mickey take, as he would have the option of appealing anyway (but probably would not dare if the bike was at all slightly dodgy).

In some ways the rule change to ignore BS / E stamps is good. One bike we have is an Italian import Cagiva Freccia which came with an Arrow silencer. Not for the UK market and about 15 years old so no BS stamp. Took ages to get an original silencer, which is actually noisier than the Arrow can (freshly packed).

All the best

Keith
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craigT19
Jolly Green Giant



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PostPosted: 19:14 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

<edited> cant be bothered to argue..

just trying to let poeple know that after market road legal cans / stock cans etc will now fail regardless of bs marks if the baffles are out etc


appologies for the rant guys, just been a nasty day trying a assemble a new addition to yamahas 125 range without an instruction book of any kind Crying or Very sad
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Last edited by craigT19 on 19:26 - 09 Jun 2005; edited 3 times in total
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carvell
Scuttler



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PostPosted: 19:21 - 09 Jun 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're an MOT tester after a week?!
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