Getting it over

[Adam_P]

Folks advice and piss taking required (although, the advice would be much more appreciated, obviously!)

I'm still struggling to get it into my head that I can get the bike to go further down into and around corners, whatever the speed.

I had the problem almost since I started riding after passing my test, even though my instructor took me two up on the ER5 I was learning on during my CBT and had us banked right over around a cone.

I just keep thinking that my fat frame will put the bike down or the tyres will lose grip will I'm over and I'll be low siding into the kerb.

However, after I did Donington I realised that I could get the bike over a hell of a way and it be fine. I virtually got to the edge of the rear tyre, so I know it was a long way over, a lot more than I had been before. And it did give me more confidence, for a while. But a race track has a shed load more grip than your average road.

I had a 'moment' on the way back from France on the bike earlier in the year where it slid from under me as I was about 4 miles from home (after a 1200 mile round trip, go figure!) and I'd been a bit nervous since then. It was only the fact that I stuck my leg down that it didn't slide away. It was wet and there was new tarmac down, which didn't help. So I also know that its not a regular thing that will happen at every bend.

But for some reason I keep coming up to corners and wondering whether there is gravel in the middle of my line and whether its going to slip away. I do seem to be better if I've had a short ride, stopped, then got back on again. I seem to have more confidence and relax a hell of a lot more. I rode back from Cadwell last night in a 'spirited' fashion, and wasn't that worried, but the nagging thoughts still popped up every now and again.

So, am I just being completely paranoid, or should I just get on with it? And is there anything in particular I can do to get past it and enjoy myself from the off more.
____________________
Colin McRae MBE 1968 - 2007 RIP
Orwell Rolls in his Grave
God is imaginary

[Bendy]

Ride more.

Personally, it all comes down to how I'm feeling that day. Some days I go out and have almost blind faith in my tyres, other days I feel a bit and am thinking too much instead of just doing.

There seems to be some correlation between how much I've ridden my bike in the recent weeks though - if I ride home after a trackday I'm a cornering god. If I've barely been on it in a couple of weeks I usually suck. I currently seem to be having a spate of 'good confidence' presumably brought on by my trip to Scotland.

This isn't to say I'm a nervous wreck if I haven't ridden for a bit, just that it takes me a wee while to get into it. I'm never very good about going quick straight off the bat, be it roads or trackdays I take a little time to warm up.

Also, round here, the roads usually *are* covered in shit. So reckoning you shouldn't go in hot cos there'll be dubious amounts of grip isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Do you hang off in corners?

[Zoffo]

If your observation is good you should be looking for sings that would give away bad road surfaces. And that doesn't always require you have to actually see the road.

Over hanging trees over bend may indicate lots of dead leaves or water being held then dropped long after the rain has stopped.

pertrol stations near by increase the possibility of a spillage on a roundabout or sharp bend. etc.

Also if your positioning is right you should not be committed to a line (as you are if you try to take every apex). This allows you to change your line mid corner to avoid any obsticals. E.g on a left hander you should be near the white line and stay there through the bend. Not only does this extend the disappearing point but also does not commit you to a certain line as you would if you took the apex (because you gonna swing out after the apex no matter what you do).
Always give youself somewhere to go and if that isn't possible then don't go in hot. I only ever push it on roads I know well. The rest of the time I keep something in hand for when the shit hits the fan
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https://hyperbikes.forumsplace.com/

[Chriss]

This might be a stupid thing to say/ask, but have you come off yet? I found alot of my fear was down to being afraid to drop the bike, only because I was scared it was going to hurt, rather than worried about the bike.

Of course, if you've never come off, then you don't know that for yourself. No way of getting round this, and I don't advise you go out to come off, and if you never come off. Just wondering for my own little theories.
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TheShaggyDA: I've got 3 or 4 pairs that predate my wife, so at least 11.5 years old.

[Adam_P]

In answer to the questions...

No, I don't hang off the bike when cornering Bendy. I got almost to the edge of the tyres at Donington and still haven't touched down with pegs, feet, let alone going for the knee!!!

I agree with what you said about being better after time in the saddle. I said that before too. Like I said, coming back from Cadwell last night I was relatively ok, but just that I get an inkling that there's a build up of gravel in the middle of my lane or something and its puts me off. It's also having confidence that the tyres and bike will grip and hold my weight at certain speeds when banked over. I KNOW they are designed to, and should do. But telling my brain that, is a different story.

I haven't crashed either, although, I have done years ago when I had my MT50 when I was 16. Which was my own fault as I was sticking to the very left hand edge of a right hand bend and got in the gravel, which then spat me off and onto the verge and very nearly into an 8 foot dyke the other side.

Hmmm, maybe that's a deep rooted psychological problem.....
____________________
Colin McRae MBE 1968 - 2007 RIP
Orwell Rolls in his Grave
God is imaginary

[Keen]

[dainesefreak]

I wouldn't worry about getting your knee down, it suits some riding styles and not others.

The tyre confidence thing can be down to a few things such as; tyre, air pressures, suspension setup and your own personal riding confidence.

Following on a bit from what Zoffo what saying about observation, you can get to a point in riding where the learning experience stagnates, then all of a sudden it picks up again. I now see more things than I used to and it's almost subliminal. Once you get the on road position sorted you get more time to see things, quick scans ahead of the road surface and anything that might be a hazard sort of become second nature, it's something you can make yourself practise. I still go out on roads that I know very well and practise different things, like not using the brakes, road position, etc. Sometimes I go over the road once to see what it's like, turn around and speed up the run (yes I do get bored ). It's all a confidence builder in sort of a controlled environment. Pick a good clear island and lap it a few times to get a feel for the bike setup. It's all stuff that you can then use and transfer to all kinds of roads and situations.

[yambabe]

[Adam_P]

I just feel that I should be able to take bends better on the bike. Its not necessarily anything to do with the speed I'm taking them at, its the amount the bike can go over and that I'm in two minds as to whether it will, or if there's grip there to do it in the first place.

I don't want to be cornering like a MotoGP rider, just have the faith that I can push a bit harder on the bars and not be worried that the bike can't do it.
____________________
Colin McRae MBE 1968 - 2007 RIP
Orwell Rolls in his Grave
God is imaginary

[The#Doctor#]

As you've said that you have lent the bike to almost the end of the tyre but don't be worried that the grip will run out as you can lean a bike alot further than the edge of the back tyre as im sure your 'chicken strips' are alot bigger on the front than on the back.

Have you tried countersteering ? Did you read that post about body position that was on here a while back, helped me alot in getting confident to lean the bike around corners


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CBR125R - CBR600Fy
'140 mph officer thats impossible the bike is 33 bhp restricted'

[stinkwheel]

[Adam_P]

Thanks for all the advice folks, but I think I'm maybe not getting my point across in the right way.

I understand lines into and out of corners, especially getting over to the left or right of the lane/road depending on the direction of the bend.
(I'm not meaning that I don't appreciate the advice already given, I always do, AND take it on board! )


But... Its the actual feeling of grip and whether or not its going to slide away from under me that's the overlying problem.

I keep noticing that there's a hell of a lot of gravel scooped into the middle of the lane (as in, my side of the road) as I go into a corner and I just keep wondering whether its going to cause me a problem. Not all the time, but its making me more nervous at times than I need/want to be. And its making my riding jerky and nervous, which I certainly don't want either.

What gets me is that I'm ridiculously smooth in the car, comes from time with professional drivers, instruction and more timeas a driver in my lifetime I suppose

Just wish I could ignore (well, make it natural) the wondering in my head and believe that the rubber is going to stay attached to the tarmac.
____________________
Colin McRae MBE 1968 - 2007 RIP
Orwell Rolls in his Grave
God is imaginary

[G]

For roads with gravel on them, I don't tend to go for it that much.

I've not really found a 'feel' for when a tyre starts to get near the edge of grip.
However when it does, the first signs are the front end starting to twitch in. It doesn't feel like it's sliding, though it is, more feels like you are suddenly countersteering in quickly.
Push it a bit more and you will probably gets a little slide which should recover.

Best place to try this is probably a quiet roundabout with a decent, consistant surface.
Be careful though, push it to much and you will be sliding - though at least you're unlikely to hurt your bike or yourself too much .

[Dom_]

As said above really. I couldn't corner too well when i first started riding, had big chickenstrips etc... After a few sessions on roundabouts and i knew the bike could grip at these lean angles then i've been 10x better on the road, my chickenstrips havn't grown back since when i first lost them (obviously apart from in the wet) and for left handers, you can just find yourself a nice quiet corner and add a few more mph to the entering speed each time you go in, until you feel you've reched the limit, or until the back starts to twitch. But even when your chickenstrips are gone you still have a hell of a lot more lean in the tyre.