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Aikman666 |
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Aikman666 World Chat Champion
Joined: 20 Dec 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 01:16 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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Dont you think that it could make bikes even less noticeable? Ive known myself sometimes as a passenger in a car i can hear a bike, its kind of speed (slow-fast-INSANE) and its direction before i see it. Right enough, didnt stop us almost getting owned by an Asda truck on a roundabout when i was pillion on my stepdads blade today. But still i think being able to hear a bike makes them more noticeable. no? ____________________ Will work for petrol
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Josh|RD125LC |
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Josh|RD125LC World Chat Champion
Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 01:20 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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If that law does come in, I think we may be waving goodbye to thousands of bikes out there. The only bikes left on the roads will be 4 stroke hairdryers.
That ain't gonna happen! ____________________ Honda MBX50 | Yamaha RD125LC | Suzuki RG125F Lucky Strike | Suzuki GSF600S
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mchaggis |
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mchaggis World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 May 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 01:34 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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I'd like to see anyone carry out a noise test which would stand up in court without the appropriate test facilities as described in BS ISO 362.
https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/iso362_testarea.jpg
That is the layout of the area you need, and the whole setup takes about two acres of clear space. The test procedure (for cars at any rate) is laid out in the attached document. Motorcyles are tested in a similar fashion.
In a report I wrote: |
Testing stipulations
The vehicle was tested according to the regulations laid out in the BS ISO 362 standard.
Test site
The testing site was the ISO noise circuit at the MIRA proving grounds. The paved surface was laid as detailed in BSI ISO 362, with a surface conforming to BSI ISO 10844:1994- Acoustics Test surface for road vehicle noise measurements. The centreline of the test track, C-C lay in the NE-SW direction. The wind during the test was south-westerly with an average speed of 6.7ms-1. The air temperature was an average of 8.8ºC, at a pressure of 1011 hectoPascals (hPa). The surface was clean and free from absorbent material such as fresh snow or mud.
Measuring equipment
Noise measurements were carried out by sound analysers positioned 7.5m from the centreline of the test track at a height of 1.2m above ground level. The analysers were calibrated using a pistonphone both before and after the tests to verify their accuracy, and were fitted with windshields.
All test equipment conformed to IEC 60651:1979 – Sound Level Meters and IEC 60942:1988 – Sound Calibrators respectively.
Background noise level
The measured A-weighted sound pressure level typical of the background noise was 48dBA re 20μPa.
Test Vehicle Identification
The vehicle tested was the Ford Mondeo 2.0 litre TDCi passenger car. The engine was of an diesel inline four cylinder layout mounted transversely in the front of the vehicle, the vehicle being front wheel drive.
The vehicle had four road wheels, each of which was shod in identical 205/55R16 tyres. The tyre pressures were 31 psi in both front tyres, 29 psi in the near side rear tyre and 30 psi in the off side rear. All tyres were less than a month old and all had a tread depth of at least 5mm.
The test mass of the vehicle exceeded the vehicle kerb mass, with all necessary equipment for normal operation fitted, in addition to the following elements:
- Lubricant, cooling, brake and washer fluids.
- Fuel tank filled to at least three-quarters of the capacity specified by the manufacturer.
- Other basic equipment included a fire extinguisher conforming to BS 6165:2002 Specification for small disposable fire extinguishers of the aerosol type, spare wheel, toolkit, and wheeljack.
This means that this test vehicle is a normal road-legal vehicle, which is suitable for testing.
Vehicle speed and engine speed
The vehicle speed at the beginning of the acceleration A-A was 50kmh-1. The engine speeds were not recorded at A-A.
The vehicle speed at the end of the acceleration (B-B) was 61 kmh-1 in both second and third gears, with engine speeds of 4250 and 2600 rpm respectively.
Auxiliary Equipment
Auxiliary equipment included air conditioning, which was turned off. |
The 2.0 TDCi Mondeo failed the driveby test when we did it. Ford must have fudged it when they did their tests, but that's the name of the game.
How they expect the police to have the time to test a vehicle to that degree, let alone how they expect them to have the facilities suitable is beyond me. ____________________ I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush. |
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White Noise |
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White Noise Mr Dudwee
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Karma :
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mchaggis |
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mchaggis World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 May 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 01:54 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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That was part of the final year of my degree course (Automotive Engineering). A rather intensive week of testing and report writing at MIRA.
At the moment I'm still trying to work out exactly what I'm going to do next. Moving back up to Aberdeen and working in the oil industry is interesting me at the moment, as is a Mechanical Design Engineer post designing earth moving equipment. That's excluding the Forces and all the normal main automotive players.
Edit: the equipment we were using could pick up the Range Rover Sports doing maximum speed runs on the banked oval about 100 metres away, over a hill. It made almost a decibel difference every time one went past. Carrying out the test near any traffic would be bad news, and buildings to reflect the noise would be even worse. ____________________ I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush. |
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Flip |
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Flip Super Spammer
Joined: 28 Feb 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 02:01 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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So... bikes with stock cans will be OK and those with after market can could be f*cked? Is this what they're saying? |
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mchaggis |
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mchaggis World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 May 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 02:12 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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Flip |
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Flip Super Spammer
Joined: 28 Feb 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 02:49 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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It's just silly.
All of it. |
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :
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mchaggis |
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mchaggis World Chat Champion
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R6jonny |
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R6jonny Nearly there...
Joined: 28 Jan 2005 Karma :
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Vespa |
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Vespa Traffic Copper
Joined: 12 Feb 2005 Karma :
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 12:46 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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mchaggis wrote: | An MOT test is one thing, but confiscation of your bike is quite another. Fail an MOT test and you fix the problem and retest it. Get deemed by the police to have a too loud bike and your bike gets confiscated just on the word of a police officer? |
They already have the power to do this.
https://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2002/20030--f.htm
Some legislation wrote: |
59 Vehicles used in manner causing alarm, distress or annoyance
(1) Where a constable in uniform has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle is being used on any occasion in a manner which-
(a) contravenes section 3 or 34 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 (c. 52) (careless and inconsiderate driving and prohibition of off-road driving), and
(b) is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public,
he shall have the powers set out in subsection (3).
(2) A constable in uniform shall also have the powers set out in subsection (3) where he has reasonable grounds for believing that a motor vehicle has been used on any occasion in a manner falling within subsection (1).
(3) Those powers are-
(a) power, if the motor vehicle is moving, to order the person driving it to stop the vehicle;
(b) power to seize and remove the motor vehicle;
(c) power, for the purposes of exercising a power falling within paragraph (a) or (b), to enter any premises on which he has reasonable grounds for believing the motor vehicle to be;
(d) power to use reasonable force, if necessary, in the exercise of any power conferred by any of paragraphs to (a) to (c).
(4) A constable shall not seize a motor vehicle in the exercise of the powers conferred on him by this section unless-
(a) he has warned the person appearing to him to be the person whose use falls within subsection (1) that he will seize it, if that use continues or is repeated; and
(b) it appears to him that the use has continued or been repeated after the the warning.
(5) Subsection (4) does not require a warning to be given by a constable on any occasion on which he would otherwise have the power to seize a motor vehicle under this section if-
(a) the circumstances make it impracticable for him to give the warning;
(b) the constable has already on that occasion given a warning under that subsection in respect of any use of that motor vehicle or of another motor vehicle by that person or any other person;
(c) the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that such a warning has been given on that occasion otherwise than by him; or
(d) the constable has reasonable grounds for believing that the person whose use of that motor vehicle on that occasion would justify the seizure is a person to whom a warning under that subsection has been given (whether or not by that constable or in respect the same vehicle or the same or a similar use) on a previous occasion in the previous twelve months.
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So if the exhaust can be regarded as "causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public" then they already have the power to seize it, and from memory you have no right of appeal against this, just have to pay up their fees.
All the best
Keith ____________________ Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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mchaggis |
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mchaggis World Chat Champion
Joined: 10 May 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 13:10 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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Seems like they're trying to make new laws specifically to discriminate against bikers when their current legislation already covers it. Sounds familiar, they seem to like making new laws, perhaps to make it look like they're doing something constructive...
No doubt their proposed new law would allow them to pull bikers over in the middle of nowhere and confiscate their bikes, even without there being any distress or annoyance caused to members of the public. ____________________ I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush. |
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Kickstart |
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Kickstart The Oracle
Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :
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kb-zxr |
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kb-zxr Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 01 Jun 2005 Karma :
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 17:27 - 08 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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I didn't watch the Clarkson programme but I am lead to believe that he also commented that he would like to shoot a biker in the face.
Given his historic "I would like to string some cheesewire across the road" comment, some people are getting rather upset and sending messages of complaint to the BBC. I for one think he is just being childish and the best way to deal with that is to ignore him.
I mean I would like to kick Tony Blair in the balls, this does not mean I would expect a third party to act on this desire.
One of the threads on it is HERE if you are interested in complaining also. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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sickpup |
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sickpup Old Timer
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Vespa |
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Vespa Traffic Copper
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tokarev |
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tokarev World Chat Champion
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colin1 |
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colin1 Captain Safety
Joined: 17 Feb 2005 Karma :
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Vespa |
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Vespa Traffic Copper
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danclarkie |
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danclarkie Scooby Slapper
Joined: 07 May 2005 Karma :
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White Noise |
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White Noise Mr Dudwee
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 07:27 - 09 Aug 2005 Post subject: |
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do a spell check on it
WN ____________________ Buy my wife: 96' Yam XJ600s (Diversion)
Wing Commander White Noise - SE Clique
Riding Tip #86: See God, then back off a bit: Problem is i haven't seen god yet, just a close up of tarmac on revett straight |
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Gti |
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Gti Bendy Groupie
Joined: 07 May 2003 Karma :
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 18 years, 262 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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