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Simple fault diagnosing techniques

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knockout_bar
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 25 Aug 2005    Post subject: Simple fault diagnosing techniques Reply with quote

These are just a rough guide of simple engine faults and how to tell what is making those strange noises.


A "ticking" noise - This most likely caused by your timing is too far advanced, it is called "pinking" (full name is pre-ignition). If left, this can cause major problems, because the spark is firing nearer the piston crown, you run the risk of burning a hole in the top of your piston, which can be quite a costly situation.

A "rattle" (heard coming from the barrell) - This is a sign that your top end bearing needs replacing.

A pronounced "knocking" (coming from the crankcase) - This means your bottom end bearing is gone and needs replacing.

A low end "rumble" (coming from the crankcase) - Your crank bearing(s) are gone and need replacing.


If you're running a two stroke, here are some problems/tips.

If you think that your bike isn't running aswel as it did, the throttle isn't as responsive as it used to/should be.


Help, my bike has no/lost power

1. Is the carb set up right and in sync with the exhaust? - This is a common problem for many people running derestricted two strokes. If the carb is not set up to meet the demands of the exhaust pipe, not only do you loose performance, but you also run the risk of burning a hole in the piston because the engine will be running lean (i.e. not enough fuel). If you think this is the problem, there are two ways of identifying it;

i. Does the bike die with the throttle fully open? - If this is the case, you will need a bigger main jet. Consult your dealer, or one of the guys on here for some advice on choosing the right main jet.

ii. Does the bike refuse to rev up from tickover? - This will be the work of the pilot jet. Again, consult your dealer or someone on here for advice on a bigger jet.


2. Is the air filter element clogged? - This can cause a slightly richer mixture because the optimum amount of air wont be getting through to the carb.

3. Is there a hole in the exhaust pipe? - Engine performance can suffer from a loss of back pressure. If there is a hole, you can either use some exhaust glue (Gum Gun) to patch it up, or weld it up.

4. Are the baffles clogged up? - This can result in a build up of too much back pressure. I can't exactly remember how to clean it up, but you could clean the baffles by leaving the assembly to soak in a tub of petrol (outside). When it's soaked, get at it with an old toothbrush until all the residue is gone. It is also advisable to clean the entire pipe, but I can't remember how to do that (someone here is bound to know).

5. Are the Piston and rings ok? - If your bike has started producing excessive smoke from the exhaust pipe, then it is quite likely that the oil control ring has blown (can be caused by over-revving).

If none of those are the source of the problem, then I would look at the crank shaft oil seals. I would best leave that to the garage, but if anyone is feeling up to it themselves, i'll post how to replace them etc.

Phew, i'm knackered now.

Hope this is of use to someone, and please correct me where i'm wrong. I haven't worked on 2 strokes for a while.
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Vin
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 25 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Symptoms for clogged air filter can be starting without needing the choke up to, in my case, the bike not starting/flooding. Oh and black oily plugs.
Not sure about worn rings on a 2 stroke producing more smoke either. More smoke I do know can be caused by mis firing(any cause) or as you say gearbox oil leaking into the crank case because of worn seals
I don't know about the rest as I am learning as I go at present.
Please don't take this a criticism I am finding this workshop forum really usefull as these issues usually get resolved
So nice one Thumbs Up
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knockout_bar
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 25 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin wrote:
Symptoms for clogged air filter can be starting without needing the choke up to, in my case, the bike not starting/flooding. Oh and black oily plugs.
Not sure about worn rings on a 2 stroke producing more smoke either. More smoke I do know can be caused by mis firing(any cause) or as you say gearbox oil leaking into the crank case because of worn seals
I don't know about the rest as I am learning as I go at present.
Please don't take this a criticism I am finding this workshop forum really usefull as these issues usually get resolved
So nice one Thumbs Up


Thanks Thumbs Up

I have some amendments to make, but this is basically a thread so that people can use this as a possible basis as to what might be wrong with their bike.

Oh, and my KE175 started pouring out white smoke when the oil control ring blew on her.
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Vin
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 25 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

knockout_bar wrote:
Oh, and my KE175 started pouring out white smoke when the oil control ring blew on her.


I am still not convinced here is a quote from the web page below.
Two-cycle engines use a mixture of oil and gasoline together, so there is no reason to have oil control rings in a two-cycle engine. Oil control is maintained by strictly using the correct ratio of oil and fuel

https://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0507_st.asp

Regards

Vin
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veeeffarr
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 15:14 - 25 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Might just be me being dumb, but wouldn't you need an Oil Control Ring on a bike who's stroke and oil are mixed automatically and not premixed by hand?
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:19 - 25 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toby R wrote:
Might just be me being dumb, but wouldn't you need an Oil Control Ring on a bike who's stroke and oil are mixed automatically and not premixed by hand?


Nope, the auto oiling results in exactly the same mixture of oil and petrol going into the engine, just mixes it in the inlet manifold rather than the tank. There are a couple of noteable exceptions to this which I won't go into, the people who own those bikes will know all about it.

Arrow On a four cylinder bike, diagnose which cyliders are misfiring by putting a spot of oil on all the header pipes then firing it up. The ones it doesn't burn off are not firing.

If there is one misfiring, check the carb and compression.

If it is a pair misfiring (1&3 or 2&4) look to the coil or CDI.

If it is the other pair misfiring (1&2 or 3&4) or three out of the four, get your wallet ready!

Arrow If your bike won't sit at a steady rev speed and had a 'searching' idle speed which takes a long time to settle. Consider that there could be an air leak round the inlet manifold. Spraying some EZ start round the inlet rubbers with the bike idling would cause it to rev-up if this was the case. (remember EZ start is highly flammable so don't spray it on a hot engine!)
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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knockout_bar
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 17:18 - 25 Aug 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vin wrote:
knockout_bar wrote:
Oh, and my KE175 started pouring out white smoke when the oil control ring blew on her.


I am still not convinced here is a quote from the web page below.
Two-cycle engines use a mixture of oil and gasoline together, so there is no reason to have oil control rings in a two-cycle engine. Oil control is maintained by strictly using the correct ratio of oil and fuel

https://www.greenmediaonline.com/uploads/shoptalk/0507_st.asp

Regards

Vin



It's a 1977 KE175 with an autolube, so that might be it. I know the Suzi RM series only have one piston ring.
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125 trail bike, custom bars, handguards etc. - ?500.

"egg flied lice" - R6jonny (inspired by McGee) Thumbs Up
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sickpup
Old Timer



Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 02:51 - 26 Aug 2005    Post subject: Re: Simple fault diagnosing techniques Reply with quote

knockout_bar wrote:
These are just a rough guide of simple engine faults and how to tell what is making those strange noises.

A "ticking" noise - This most likely caused by your timing is too far advanced, it is called "pinking" (full name is pre-ignition). If left, this can cause major problems, because the spark is firing nearer the piston crown, you run the risk of burning a hole in the top of your piston, which can be quite a costly situation.

Unlikely as most have fixed timing these days.


A "rattle" (heard coming from the barrell) - This is a sign that your top end bearing needs replacing.

Small end not top end

A pronounced "knocking" (coming from the crankcase) - This means your bottom end bearing is gone and needs replacing.

Can be crank bearings as well. and it's called a big end bearing.

A low end "rumble" (coming from the crankcase) - Your crank bearing(s) are gone and need replacing.

Top end noise can also be caused by this as your piston hits the cylinder head. Replace crank seals as well.

None of the above applies to four stroke engines

If you're running a two stroke, here are some problems/tips.

If you think that your bike isn't running aswel as it did, the throttle isn't as responsive as it used to/should be.

Help, my bike has no/lost power

1. Is the carb set up right and in sync with the exhaust? - This is a common problem for many people running derestricted two strokes. If the carb is not set up to meet the demands of the exhaust pipe, not only do you loose performance, but you also run the risk of burning a hole in the piston because the engine will be running lean (i.e. not enough fuel). If you think this is the problem, there are two ways of identifying it;

i. Does the bike die with the throttle fully open? - If this is the case, you will need a bigger main jet. Consult your dealer, or one of the guys on here for some advice on choosing the right main jet.

ii. Does the bike refuse to rev up from tickover? - This will be the work of the pilot jet. Again, consult your dealer or someone on here for advice on a bigger jet.


2. Is the air filter element clogged? - This can cause a slightly richer mixture because the optimum amount of air wont be getting through to the carb.

3. Is there a hole in the exhaust pipe? - Engine performance can suffer from a loss of back pressure. If there is a hole, you can either use some exhaust glue (Gum Gun) to patch it up, or weld it up.

Wrong. Engine performance will suffer due to the pressure waves becoming ragged and not interacting as they should


4. Are the baffles clogged up? - This can result in a build up of too much back pressure. I can't exactly remember how to clean it up, but you could clean the baffles by leaving the assembly to soak in a tub of petrol (outside). When it's soaked, get at it with an old toothbrush until all the residue is gone. It is also advisable to clean the entire pipe, but I can't remember how to do that (someone here is bound to know).

More likely to be the actual pipe clogged. Soak in caustic soda unless it's aluminium.

5. Are the Piston and rings ok? - If your bike has started producing excessive smoke from the exhaust pipe, then it is quite likely that the oil control ring has blown (can be caused by over-revving).

There are no oil control rings on a 2 stroke. There is no oil in the bottom of the crank area of the sump to control. If there is your crank seals are fucked.


If none of those are the source of the problem, then I would look at the crank shaft oil seals. I would best leave that to the garage, but if anyone is feeling up to it themselves, i'll post how to replace them etc.

Phew, i'm knackered now.

Hope this is of use to someone, and please correct me where i'm wrong. I haven't worked on 2 strokes for a while.
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