A different perspective on protective gear

[.....]

Right, first of all, I have blatently ripped this off a post on VD, by a chap called Screwdriver.

Original post on VD here

The reason I've stuck it up on here it gives a slightly different perspective on the issue of protective gear.

Here goes :

" I researched some of the data and liked the analogy with jumping off the roof so reposted here for your delectation...

I wouldn't consider riding a bike without full protective gear. But being a bit of a scientist and therefore a realist, I do know the consequences of hitting anything are still going to be severe for the big offs.

Most people imagine their protection as being invulnerable from external attack, from a hammer for example. Clearly however all of the energy from a travelling body has to go somewhere when it meets a stationary one and those forces are applied from within.

Similarly, while leather is great protection against road rash for those low speed 30-50 mph offs (is that low?), door frames, armco and fenceposts will puncture pretty much anything and the faster you go, the bigger the forces get. You'll be better off of course but being "better off" might only mean you stay alive long enough for an ambulance to reach you.

No, all that protection is great for minor and slow speed accidents where you'll pick yourself off, dust yourself down and curse at another scuff on the leathers. The dude in t-shirt and jeans is currently looking amazed at just how much blood he used to have.

Modern gear is not a magical cloak of invicibility. The forces involved in accidents over 50 mph (to pick an abitrary speed) are simply phenomenal. If your leg endures 10 or 20 g of deceleration, which it might if it goes the other side of a lamppost; you might just as well prop it up on a chair and drop a fridge on it.

As an example:

Hitting a stationary object at 30mph is the equivalent of jumping off the roof of your house (about 30 feet). At 50 mph, you'd be jumping off an office block from 85 feet up. Feel safe in your leathers now?

Full protective gear will help. A lot.

But it'll still hurt if you run into anything at speed.

To reach 100 mph you'd need to fall at least 335 feet, that's like jumping from here:

https://www.terragalleria.com/images/italy/ital7211.jpeg

Imagine now you are teetering on the edge of the roof above. You'd be pretty damned careful no? Would you feel much better protected with full leathers and a helmet? Well it's just a thought but you might want to consider this analogy next time you are wafting along at a ton..."

Quite interesting stuff.....

To Screwdriver

[primalcarl]

A different way of looking at it.

OT but what I find interesting is when you are in a plane you're only 8/9 miles up, but everything looks false. Back on land looking 8/9 miles into the distance things just look smaller, but not as small. It's just funny the difference there is by looking down at something and not at (the pic above reminded me of that, looks scary but not neccesarily the same kind of scary as 100mph on a bike.

Anyway back on topic, the Moto GP guys come off at much greater speeds than those above and usually come off ok. But their environment is generally safer (smooth tarmac/grass/gravel/no stationary objects)

[cc123]

I'd rather be in leathers as 70% of my riding is at the speed limit and I suppose the other 30% is much faster but even then I know I'm still at risk from spanking a wall, post, car etc...

Wouldn't like to lose skin even for a small off, which is all I've had upto now. I've also witnessed a 70+ off of my mates with full gear and he was larglely ok, the gear done its job.
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Old bikes >>> https://www.bikepics.com/members/cc123/

[gavin]

umm.....isnt that obvious? an off at speed is fine unless you hit something solid.

mark forsyth fell off a zzr1100 in performance bikes years ago at 180mph on an open runway and was just a little dazed. richard britton falls off at 40mph and hits his head on a kerb and hes dead. not really any suprises there.

still, id rather fall off at 100mph in the right gear and take my chances with the roadside furniture, than lose control of my car at 100mph and hit something solid, the car, being bigger, is more likely to strike something than my body is.

[.....]

[gavin]

having jumped form 15,000 feet, i'd say ive got a fairly good perspective on the idea

https://homepage.ntlworld.com/gavin.prior/JUMP6.jpg

[bish777]

The other thing is appropriate clothing and gear.

For instance, soft CE armoured gear will better protect you in sub 30 offs (providing you dont fly into a wall or summat) than race leathers with hard armour. Hard armour and leathers willl protect you better in high speed flings.
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GSXR1100J

[bish777]

[Walloper]

If you whack a car or something coming at you from the oppossite direction wouldn't it's mass cause some of that 'latent energy' to be dissapated therefore allowing the PPE to do it's job?
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W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair

[bish777]

in a head on collision you must add the two speeds together.

Ie a head on both at 70 is like being hit at 140 mph.

unless the bike takes it and your flung clear and dont hit anything, your going to die.
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GSXR1100J

[Walloper]

I was being flippant
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W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair

[bish777]

ooopsi, serious hat was on
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GSXR1100J

[RascalsCustar...]

Interesting post. Almost makes me feel like cycling everywhere...in leathers and a crash helmet!

Do wonder though how much energy is 'absorbed' by the road and/or other surrounding things that are solid, but that you don't 'directly impact with. Gravel traps for example are extremly effective at dissipating energy, hence the reason for racers coming off so well.

As for coliding with anything solidat 100mph+... I'd really rather not think about it.

[instigator]

Still doesn't make me feel any different to PPE. If its a jeans and jacket day (well, it always is for me, come rain or shine ) then its a jeans and jacket day.

Bit of an obvious statement really, to catch out those who naively think they are safe in their £1000 leathers.

[stinkwheel]

I think he has failed to grasp the concept of vectors though.

Sure, if you hit a stationary object , it would be like jumping off a building. Falling off your bike onto a road would be a much more minor impact, a fall of some four feet or so down from the saddle. This is followed by a slide along the road, but leathers can and will protect against it.

In the attached diagram of falling off a bike, you fall the distance marked 'x' and slide the distance marked 'y'

Shit, I got drawn into a safety argument again. I have typed it now so I'll post it, but no-more.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Leathers do a great job if you are sliding down the road. Don't do much good if you hit something solid.

However, impacts can kill you at fairly low speeds. Even in a car.

This pic is of a very high rated car:-

https://www.euroncap.com/images/results/large_family_cars/car_127_2002/merc_cclass_2002.jpg.

That is is an impact against an offset (40% width of the car) deformable barrier and only 40mph.

Hit something solid and / or go a bit quicker and you can guess how quickly you will be strawberry jam.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Walloper]

Any tips on underware?
Is it better for one to ensure that fresh pants are worn on the day of the 'imminent-off'?
Or not?
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W-ireless A-rtificial L-ifeform L-imited to O-bservation P-eacekeeping and E-fficient R-epair

[Kickstart]

Hi

Probably want tight fitting underwear so that it does not twist around your body as you slide, which could cause painful burns on parts of your body.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Silver]

[Groove]

on the underware subject: i supose it depends on what trousers your wearing. if its shorts etc then ur underware will probably disintergrate anyway (and maybe whats in them)
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[delboy]

I've been in car crashes at 30, 45 & 85 + luckly walked away. In a bike crash at 60 ish, walked away, i slide along the road for what seemed like forever, my helmet, gloves and my alpines saves my ass big time. If i had no leathers on i guess i would still be in ICU.

It's your choice, i know mine

[instigator]

[Silver]

[biggerjohn]

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