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Uninsured Drivers

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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Uninsured Drivers Reply with quote

Hi

Just seen this:-

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4295834.stm

BBC wrote:

Uninsured motorists facing fines

Uninsured drivers are to face automatic fines of at least £60 in an attempt to reduce rising levels of illegal driving in the UK.
New laws being announced by the government will give police access to insurance company records.

Currently police have to catch uninsured drivers using their cars in order to prosecute them.

But the new powers will make it illegal to own a car without insuring it or declaring that it is not being used.

As well as the fines, the new powers will mean uninsured drivers could have their vehicles seized or crushed.

BBC transport correspondent Tom Symonds says the estimated one million uninsured drivers in the UK cost law-abiding motorists £30 each in extra insurance premiums each year.

Uninsured drivers are also more likely to have accidents and police say they often commit more serious offences.

The planned change will mean police can automatically send out fines based on insurance company records.

Cameras that can read number plates - such as those used in London's congestion charging zone - will also be used to trap uninsured drivers.

In August, figures showed that the number of uninsured drivers on London's roads had risen by 40 per cent between 2001 and 2003, double the average for England and Wales.


Sounds like a typical new labour policy. Don't bother catching those who are a real problem, just issue everyone with a smaller fine even if they are not causing a problem.

With all the ANPR systems floating around it is easy to catch those driving uninsured now so this new policy just seems like a good way of raking in more cash from road users.

All the best

Keith
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Mr Calendar



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PostPosted: 11:08 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Re: Uninsured Drivers Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
...With all the ANPR systems floating around it is easy to catch those driving uninsured...

...and that's a bad thing how? Confused
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m99dws
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PostPosted: 11:12 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your vehicle is taxed, tested and insured you have nothing to worry about. If it isn't, it shouldn't be on the road.

I don't see an issue with that report?
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0ddball
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

A whole £60 fine Shocked That will really hit them where it hurts.

Looks like the rest of us insurance paying citizens will get off lightly with a 'fine' of only several hundred.
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

So that means if you say own a vehicle that your doing up and is declared off road and SORN'd yet not insured you could get fined on it?
Shocked Confused
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innominate
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PostPosted: 11:14 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig- wrote:
So that means if you say own a vehicle that your doing up and is declared off road and SORN'd yet not insured you could get fined on it?
Shocked Confused


Well if you drive it past a camara, then yes.
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m99dws
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig- wrote:
So that means if you say own a vehicle that your doing up and is declared off road and SORN'd yet not insured you could get fined on it?
Shocked Confused


No

Quote:
declaring that it is not being used
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main problem I can see is that it doesn't seem to allow for a vehicle to be uninsured but not SORN.

Say your insurance runs out and you're going to wait a couple of months to renew it cos it's winter and you're not going to use the bike much. But your tax is valid and there's no point cancelling that and declaring it SORN, you'd get so little money back that you can't be bothered.

The computer will go 'uninsured vehicle on the road - panic panic' when actually it's just in your garage for a bit.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Declare it not being used then, if the money is not so important.
I think if an uninsured loser hits me I'm going to be more pissed off than if I lose £40 road fund.
I don't believe some of you folks.
What do you want to bleat about now?
'The roads surface is to grippy at corners where the council put a textured coating down'.
God Rolling Eyes
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Kickstart
You r a divvy Rolling Eyes


Read the report, then you might see the problem.

Have a vehicle off road and not being used but fail to declare it off the road (which for some unknown reason you have to do every year) and you will get hit for a £60 fine.

Utterly pointless.

Only people I can see being happy about this are those who are driving without insurance. After all they are now only going to have to pay £60 rather than getting a far larger fine through the courts.

All the best

Keith
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:27 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Declare it not being used then, if the money is not so important.


Why bother. They already have ANPR cameras all over the place. This makes it a doddle to spot those who are actually driving without insurance.

Walloper wrote:
I think if an uninsured loser hits me I'm going to be more pissed off than if I lose £40 road fund..


Except it is likely to be both.

Walloper wrote:
I don't believe some of you folks.
What do you want to bleat about now?
'The roads surface is to grippy at corners where the council put a textured coating down'.


Err, maybe because I get hacked off at being targeted for fines because the government cannot be bothered to persue those who are a problem so just go for the dragnet approach.

All the best

Keith
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Declare it not being used then, if the money is not so important.
I think if an uninsured loser hits me I'm going to be more pissed off than if I lose £40 road fund.


Why should I have to fill in two forms (off the road, back on the road) when I've paid to declare it on the road for a year.

It's nothing to do with the money (technically I would benefit), it's the hassle. Schlepping down to the post office (when the damn thing is open) with your forms cos you had to declare your vehicle sorn for 2 weeks in order to avoid an insurance fine. Rolling Eyes

Catch folk actually on the road - fair dos. Take their vehicle away and crush it, they deserve it.

£60 for keeping your vehicle in your garage? No thanks.

Do try and *read* peoples' posts before accusing them of moaning.
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biggerjohn
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Problem with the system is the fines are too small. I pay £300 to insure my car 300 / 60 =5 so I would have to get caught and fined 5 times to have the fines cost me more than insurance and I have a relatively cheep car to insure how many 17 year olds with £500+ premiums is there really going to stop driving without insurance?


Sadly Bendys is spot on this is only to make money out of people not to stop uninsured drivers on the road.

If the government really wanted to stop speeding any time some one went past a speed camera over the limit impose a harsh penalty crushing the car and banning the driver from for a year would stop speeding but it wouldn’t make money and would very quickly be the most scrutinised piece of safety legislation ever passed and under that sort of scrutiny the reality that “speed kills” is complete crap would kill cameras so instead they will continue revenue collection from motorist and claim it is all for safety reasons.
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

biggerjohn wrote:

If the government really wanted to stop speeding any time some one went past a speed camera over the limit impose a harsh penalty crushing the car and banning the driver from for a year would stop speeding


Bingo.

It's all talk. It's all 'being seen to be doing something'.

If the government wanted to stop uninsured drivers, they'd send people to prison for doing it, crush their cars, fine them thousands of pounds.

£60 isn't going to stop anyone who's already that unfussed about the whole thing that they're happy to drive uninsured.
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jaffa
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

As someone mentioned above the primary motivation here isn't to stop people driving without insurance its about raising revenue. The way these things are implemented catches people out who aren't really breaking the law whereas the hardcore scumbag simply doesn't even register the car/bike in his name and avoids prosecution.

This summer I went abroad working, the trip was extended for an additional month and I came back to a fine for not taxing my car (or declaring SORN) bespite trying to do it by phone and online while I was aborad, I didn't have the right documents with me.

Earlier this year I was 'caught' for speeding, £40 fine and 3 points, I was doing 34 in a 30 zone at 11:30pm.

I really dont think the examples above are what people are thinking when they're voting for a government that is promising to crack down on crime, its actually a cynical piss-take and along with more than 100 brand new (or increased) taxes in the last 8 years its just another way to steal my money.
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Fck-off the lot of you.
If you cant afford to pay then don't play.


Still having trouble with the reading thing?
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

You paranoid bunch of hypocrites.
It wouldn't be that if one of your 'un-insured charges' rams you and he can't pay.
Wise Up FFS
Oh like a government that spends billions of £££s on lots of stuff is going to 'flush' the bank account with the revenue from un-insured drivers. Rolling Eyes
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Adam_P
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PostPosted: 11:48 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the main problem is that the people driving without insurance are going to be literally laughing all the way to the bank.

Costs me just over 200 quid to insure my car for the year. So I could basically not bother and then only have to pay 60 quid if I got caught...???

Not really an incentive to make people stop, is it?

It's a 1000 quid fine for not having a TV license FFS!!!! Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bendy wrote:
Walloper wrote:
Fck-off the lot of you.
If you cant afford to pay then don't play.


Still having trouble with the reading thing?


I think I can read better than most posting here.
Try not to only read the story.
Use your judgement and imagination to see the bigger picture. Smile
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pay £700 for a bike £550 for a car.
Yes I'm laughing too.
Wanna know about my hoose and personal possessions?
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:

Use your judgement and imagination to see the bigger picture. Smile


I did.

Fines for uninsured drivers, great. The little picture.

Fines for people with an unused car in their garage, not so great. The bigger picture.

Only one of the above was explicitly stated in their press release. The other one you have to work out by yourself. Or wait and get fined for.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 30 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
You are a cantankerous cnut kickstart/upstart.


Why thankyou, from the truely ignorant like you that is probably a complement.

Walloper wrote:
The problem is not people not wishing to insure vehicles they DO NOT use. It's to try and stop the b4stards that USE a vehicle and are uninsured.


Exactly, so why bring in a change in the law to dragnet everyone and hit them with a minor fine rather than actually bother to catch the small number who are actually driving without insurance.

They do not even bother to check insurance documents for people who get a ticket from a Gatso camera.

Walloper wrote:
Can you not read 'joined-up' writing?


I can. You cannot. Now try to learn to read and understand English.

Walloper wrote:
But why should people (normal law abiding) have to claim their own insurance because some twit (Is that you?) dodges the system?


Why should normal people have to fill in loads of pointless paperwork to avoid being fined when they have done nothing wrong and the government cannot be bothered to enforce the law with already available tools.

Walloper wrote:
If you have a vehicle get INSURANCE or don't have a vehicle.
WE the insured make the rules coz we are the majority.


Why should I have insurance for a vehicle that is not in use and not stored on the road. We currently have a load of vehicles which are off the road. Some are insured. Some are not. What the hell is the point of filling in a load of fucking paperwork every year to state they are off the road when they can easily be identified if used on the road.

The rules are if it is on the road it must be insured.

Walloper wrote:
Drink drive laws are similar.
You don't need to be driving a vehicle to warrant a breath alcohol test. But you do if it's considered you are going to drive a vehicle whilst over the safe limit. ie opening the car door.


No, the laws and penalties are different between driving a car and being in charge of a car.

BiggerJohn wrote:
Problem with the system is the fines are too small. I pay £300 to insure my car 300 / 60 =5 so I would have to get caught and fined 5 times to have the fines cost me more than insurance and I have a relatively cheep car to insure how many 17 year olds with £500+ premiums is there really going to stop driving without insurance?


Worse than that. Currently they might get caught a few times in the year driving without insurance and the fines might add up. Likely that under the new system they would just be fined once when they did not bother to declare it off road. Massive savings for those who drive uninsured.

Walloper wrote:
I pay £700 for a bike £550 for a car.
Yes I'm laughing too.


Whoopie doo. I look forward to the day your insurance company forget to send the renewal through and you get find even though they were not being used.

Keith
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