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shifting gears properly

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Anafranil
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

I'm quite new to superbikes and I was wondering if it's ok to pull half the clucth in order to have 3 fingers on the handle bar.Can I damage the clucth plate by doing so?Anyway,I would like to know the proper way of shifting gears quickly and having optimum contact with the handlebar,
thanks in advance
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yorkshirelad3
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

judge your revs right and clutchless change, thats what i do if im trying to get the bike up to speed quick
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colin1
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

clutchless changing up is good at high revs but generally i would use all of my fingertips on the clutch lever hand pull it in quick, change gear and let it out quick

i find i can use the clutch quicker if i am using all fingertips of all fingers

gripping the bar with palm and thumb is fine in my opinion
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yorkshirelad3
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

or just changing whilst slipping the clutch in and out around the biting point like gp racers do when starting
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Groove
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

havnt done clutchless gear changes yet, i jus do what ever is comfortable at the time.


what bike you got anafranil?
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BFG
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

Anafranil wrote:
I'm quite new to superbikes and I was wondering if it's ok to pull half the clucth in order to have 3 fingers on the handle bar.

Depends on the bike. You can check easily. Make as though to pull off at a standstill, hold the clutch using three fingers as you describe. If you can then put the biek in first and feel no drag, it will be perfectly OK to do this. Some bikes have adjustable levers.

Anafranil wrote:
Can I damage the clucth plate by doing so?

Very unlikely. It's the gearbox that's a concern. If you are getting crunching, then the clutch is not being pulled enough. As others have said, you can actually change up without the clutch as long as you drop the revs, so you are unlikely to enounter crunching on up-changes.

Anafranil wrote:
Anyway,I would like to know the proper way of shifting gears quickly and having optimum contact with the handlebar,
thanks in advance

Optimum contact with the handlbar is good practice. Taking all fingers off the bar is not a good habit to develop.
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The Old Geeza
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PostPosted: 19:05 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

BFG wrote:
Optimum contact with the handlbar is good practice. Taking all fingers off the bar is not a good habit to develop.


Huh Question

All 4 fingers of the left hand should be used for clutch control, surely ?

Isn't that what we're all taught on CBT and pre-test lessons ?

This advice seems a bit like being told to use 2 fingers only on the front brake lever Shocked

Seems like strange advice to me Shocked



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Bendy
Mrs Sensible



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PostPosted: 19:11 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

The Old Geeza wrote:


This advice seems a bit like being told to use 2 fingers only on the front brake lever Shocked


What's wrong with that?
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fuzz
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two fingers on the clutch, two on the brake. Works for me Thumbs Up Two on the brake lever means you can slow down quicker. If you need to use all four, then you can start with two instantly and move your other two onto the lever. You can slow down much quicker if you don't have to waste time moving your fingers off the grip.
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Last edited by fuzz on 19:14 - 24 Oct 2005; edited 1 time in total
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CoronaBoner
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PostPosted: 19:12 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

One on the front brake is enough Smile whatever you feel most comfortable with i guess.
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Johnny GSX-R
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clutchless changes going up the box as long as the engine isn't under load as you do it for example.

On the Blackbird i will accelerate to about 4k and ease off the throttle, as doing so i will snick another gear and gently Rolling Eyes roll on the gas again. This practice makes for silky smooth gear changes especially if you carry a pillion.
When changing down you must use the clutch.

Practice on a quiet bit of road, try different revs, different speeds of changing etc until you find way your happy with. Once you avoid the jerky clunky changes you've mastered it.
It will cause no ill effect to the running gear, the bike is designed for this method.
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BFG
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

The Old Geeza wrote:

All 4 fingers of the left hand should be used for clutch control, surely ?

Isn't that what we're all taught on CBT and pre-test lessons ?


Getting through the road test is the start of learning, not the end. Much of what you are taught in pre-test instruction is there to give you the ground-level skills that you then build upon.

You know the car test, where everyone does that stupid steering method where you don't cross your hands. Sort of like that.

The first time you get a tank-slapper is the first time you realise that you never release your grip on the handlbars. Thumbs Up

The Old Geeza wrote:
This advice seems a bit like being told to use 2 fingers only on the front brake lever Shocked

Yes. Ever seen someone lose the front end under braking and then get it back? They are the people who do not let go of the handlebar when braking. 4 fingers is fine if you just pootle about on shopping trips. I use one or two fingers maximum.


Last edited by BFG on 19:27 - 24 Oct 2005; edited 1 time in total
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fuzz
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

The Old Geeza wrote:
All 4 fingers of the left hand should be used for clutch control, surely


I find that my middle finger gives the most control over the clutch, and so the ring and little finger are not needed.
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The Old Geeza
Back in my day...



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PostPosted: 19:32 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

BFG wrote:
The first time you get a tank-slapper is the first time you realise that you never release your grip on the handlbars. Thumbs Up


This is taking it to the extreme, though, and has nothing to do with normal riding control.

How many riders do you know of who have experienced a Tank Slapper during normal biking ?

My guess - None?

If not, then, you must know some seriously dangerous bikers, and I just hope I never meet up with them on the roads Confused



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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 19:41 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

BFG wrote:
Yes. Ever seen someone lose the front end under braking and then get it back? They are the people who do not let go of the handlebar when braking. 4 fingers is fine if you just pootle about on shopping trips. I use one or two fingers maximum.


I use 4 fingers for the brakes, and have caught suddenly locked front wheels. Cannot see how it makes any difference either way to that.

However (and maybe this is because I have small hands) I find that using 4 fingers means I am using a far lower amount of the possible effort I can and so have more control (especially considering that the 2 fingers most people wrap around the bars are the 2 furthest from the levers pivot point and which have the most leverage). Also far less chance of not being able to brake fully because of having 2 fingers wedged between the lever and the bar (but then I ride through the winter so often have bulky winter gloves on).

I have no problems holding on between my thumb and palm, and I suspect that if you need to hold on to the bars tighter than that then you are going to provoke a speed weave.

A lot of it is personal preferance (and habit, such as covering the clutch lever much of the time Confused ), but different sizes of fingers and preferences on how much lever travel you like (I prefer to have a fair amount of lever travel) make a major difference.

All the best

Keith
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The Old Geeza
Back in my day...



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PostPosted: 19:44 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

BFG wrote:
...4 fingers is fine if you just pootle about on shopping trips.


Bollocks Shocked

I don't 'pootle' about on shopping trips, as you might suggest.

Just try putting the brakes on in an emergency at 120mph. Then see just how ineffective less than 4 fingers are on the brake lever.

I know, I've done it on my GPZ Wink



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BFG
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

The Old Geeza wrote:
How many riders do you know of who have experienced a Tank Slapper during normal biking ?


Most of the ones long who've been riding long enough to encounter a puncture in the front wheel. Wiseass.

The Old Geeza wrote:

My guess - None?

You just keep guessing your way then. Unless you'd care to drop the arrogant tone and learn something. Smile
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 19:47 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

The Old Geeza wrote:
Just try putting the brakes on in an emergency at 120mph. Then see just how ineffective less than 4 fingers are on the brake lever.

I know, I've done it on my GPZ Wink


Being fair the brakes on the GPZ500 do seem to be set up with quite a bit of lever travel (too much for me really, and I like some travel), which is really not a good idea with 2 finger braking (unles you want about 30% max braking ability and ensuring 2 broken fingers in the resulting accident).

All the best

Keith
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 19:50 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

BFG wrote:
Most of the ones long who've been riding long enough to encounter a puncture in the front wheel.


Err, had several front wheel punctures and never had a tank slapper either during those or on other occasions (the odd lock to lock slap, nothing more). Only know one person who has had a proper tank slapper, and given the violence of them it is unlikely that 2 fingers wrapped round the bar will help (possibly more likely to just break thumbs instead).

All the best

Keith
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The Old Geeza
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

BFG wrote:
Most of the ones long who've been riding long enough to encounter a puncture in the front wheel. Wiseass.


Didn't see any mention of punctures in your previous posts. Seems like you failed to mention that fact Confused

Also, I can't remember many occasions when a front puncture has caused a real Tank Slapper. Just a bit of a wobbly front wheel really Laughing

Quote:
You just keep guessing your way then. Unless you'd care to drop the arrogant tone and learn something. Smile


Ooh, get you.

So, I'm arrogant now, rather than old and wise, am I ?

Oh well, each to his own, I suppose Thumbs Up



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Last edited by The Old Geeza on 20:01 - 24 Oct 2005; edited 1 time in total
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Keen
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty sure the gp gods do 2 finger braking.... I think its more about personal preference, and like kickstart says the bike and how the lever is adjusted.
I use 2 fingers, I couldn't tell you why but I manage to get a decent grip on brakes whenever I need to. However, I do remember that on the CBT they tell you not to.....

Clutchless gear changes- I've never really done these... is it really ok for the bike? I mean I manage to change up pretty quick using the clutch... why bother? is it smoother?
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fuzz
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

The Old Geeza wrote:
Just try putting the brakes on in an emergency at 120mph. Then see just how ineffective less than 4 fingers are on the brake lever.


But two fingers constantly on the brake lever enable you to start braking sooner - I still put all four fingers on the lever when I need to brake hard, but my initial braking comes from two fingers - meaning you travel less distance as you have reacted quicker.
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BFG
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Old Geeza wrote:

Ooh, get you.



I'm sorry about my previous post. This annoyed me:
The Old Geeza wrote:
If not, then, you must know some seriously dangerous bikers, and I just hope I never meet up with them on the roads Confused


None of my riding has ever been called dangerous. But I see that that's not what you're saying.

The tankslapper is an extreme example of the way a lesson should not be learnt. But certainly not the only reason why it's beneficial.

My technique started on trials and motocross , where 4 fingers on the levers just cannot work. This translated to the road. It offers superior control compared with 4 fingers on levers, but I have used both in my 20+ years of riding. I've noticed that a lot of motorsport riders and Police riders do the same thing. I also know a fair few instructors and we've discussed this.

A probable exception is the motor trade, where bikes being ridden are unknown and protection of the digits becomes more important.

Personally I have braked from 160 using one finger with no problems.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 20:05 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Re: shifting gears properly Reply with quote

fuzz wrote:
But two fingers constantly on the brake lever enable you to start braking sooner - I still put all four fingers on the lever when I need to brake hard


But takes longer to build up to full braking than covering the brake lever with 4 fingers.

All the best

Keith
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The Old Geeza
Back in my day...



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PostPosted: 20:07 - 24 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

BFG wrote:
I'm sorry about my previous post. This annoyed me:
The Old Geeza wrote:
If not, then, you must know some seriously dangerous bikers, and I just hope I never meet up with them on the roads Confused


Shake hands, make up and no offence taken Thumbs Up

Hey, this is The Old Geeza you're talking to here, ya' know Rolling Eyes

I'm used to it Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up



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