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Fitting an immobiliser

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fuzz
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Fitting an immobiliser Reply with quote
I have bought an Acumen 911 alarm and immobiliser for my SV650S, but I'm a little unsure of how to fit the immobiliser. It says to cut the wire from the starter switch to the solenoid. Which solenoid are they talking about? I've looked at the wiring diagram, and the switch is connected to the HT coils on one end (I'm not cutting either of them!) and the starter control relay via the clutch switch. I assume you cut the wire somewhere between the clutch switch and the starter control relay?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 20:30 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you post a wiring loom I will show you.
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BFG
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
It works with more wires than just the starter feed, surely?

Cutting the feed to the starter solenoid will not immobilise a bike.
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fuzz
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think the idea is to stop it being hot-wired. If it was connected to the ignition system and it malfunctioned when riding it could cause an accident.

Second question would be where could I connect the +ve terminal to so that it's only live when the ignition is on? One place I can see is the wire to the fusebox from the ignition switch (fuse #3 in the diagram below.)

https://www.sv650.org/ig_retard/Wiring_Diagram.jpg

I'll try and post a full diagram later.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
That diagram is fine. Do you have one immobiliser circuit or two?
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BFG
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
fuzz wrote:
I think the idea is to stop it being hot-wired.


Honestly, don't waste your time - preventing the starter from turning is pitifully easy to bypass.

Unless it's a scooter anyone could bump start it in seconds. And if it's a Goldwing all you have to do is run any bit of copper wire lead from the + battery terminal (or any + supply lead, easy to find) to the start motor and it'll start. Doddle.

You need to prevent the engine from running. Thumbs Up

If your immobiliser has normally closed switching as well as normally open, consider using the kill-switch circuit (somehow missing from the circuit diagram). What this does is short the ignition coil to earth 100%, meaning the bike can never start and it can not be bypassed by running extra wires. Also you don't even need to cut the wire - just join to it.

If you have to cut a wire and use normally open switching, do it to one coil only. Safer in event of failure in normal riding, and causes thief to make lots of noise and not get anywhere - and maybe even give up thinking bike is knackered.
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fuzz
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
That diagram is fine. Do you have one immobiliser circuit or two?


As far as I can, tell just one. There are two leads to join to either end of the cut wire, one to the alarm, and one to a +ve connection from the ignition.
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BFG
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PostPosted: 22:19 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ahh - that's only one half of the diagram isn't it?
Thought there was loads of stuff missing Smile

I was going to say O/Y was a good bet for the + feed, as you say on relay #3, but need the rest of the diagram to be 100% sure.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
BFG wrote:


Honestly, don't waste your time - preventing the starter from turning is pitifully easy to bypass. Yes.

Unless it's a scooter anyone could bump start it in seconds. And if it's a Goldwing all you have to do is run any bit of copper wire lead from the + battery terminal (or any + supply lead, easy to find) to the start motor and it'll start. Doddle. No you have to do a bit my than that like bypass the ignition or you get no spark and in the case of a bike with a fuel pump no fuel

You need to prevent the engine from running. Thumbs Up

If your immobiliser has normally open switching as well as normally closed, consider using the kill-switch circuit (somehow missing from the circuit diagram). What this does is short the ignition coil to earth 100%, meaning the bike can never start and it can not be bypassed by running extra wires. Also you don't even need to cut the wire - just join to it. Most bike electrics dont work this way anymore. If they did all you would have to do to start a bike is smash the kill switch and bump start

If you have to cut a wire and use normally open switching, do it to one coil only. Safer in event of failure in normal riding, and causes thief to make lots of noise and not get anywhere - and maybe even give up thinking bike is knackered. The best way is to immobilise the starter circuit and then a secondary circuit like the fuel pump. If this is done to thatcham standards it works well.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
As you only have one immobiliser circuit I would use it to cut off the signal from the pickups as these failing even confuses trained mechanics. The pickups are on the other half of the diagram.
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BFG
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
No you have to do a bit my than that like bypass the ignition or you get no spark and in the case of a bike with a fuel pump no fuel[/color]

We agree. I was comparing normal (1) with immobiliser added (2).
(1) No imobiliser = thief needs to hotwire ignition.
(2) starter immobiliser > thief needs to hotwire ignition + run extra lead.

sickpup wrote:

Most bike electrics dont work this way anymore.

It's a farily recent change then. Kill switch always used to short to earth.

sickpup wrote:

If they did all you would have to do to start a bike is smash the kill switch and bump start[/color]

No, it wasn't like that. Doing that would change nothing. The thief would change a bike which has a kill switch set to run (bike runs if ignition on), to a bike with no kill switch (bike runs if ignition on).

This was because kill switches didn't interrupt a circuit, they completed one. The positive side of the coil was always connected directly to +, and the igniter completed the cicuit to - when a spark was required. The kill switch completed the circuit 100% of the time, meaning no pulse - no spark.
If a bike does have a kill switch which completes to earth, this is a great immobilisation circuit as it cannot be circumvented anywhere nearly as easily.


I like the pickups idea Thumbs Up What about the TPS? What would that do?
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fuzz
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 19 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
What are the pickups? Are you referring to the pulse generator coil?

This is on the cover of the manual:

Quote:
The immobilisation circuit provided...is designed to interrupt the starter circuit. Under no circumstances should it be used to cut the ignition circuit...

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sickpup
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 20 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
BFG wrote:

I like the pickups idea Thumbs Up What about the TPS? What would that do?


Not much in most cases. The bike would start just run badly above idle at least with Suzuki's anyway.

The points we both make are valid just for different brands of bikes. Very few big bikes have a kill switch that earths anymore, don't think I've come across one that does to be honest. Most seem to just be an interupt in the start circuit and somewhere else to do with the CDI but I can't remember where and I haven't got a wireing diagram in front of me. But all manufacturers do it in a different way so we can both be right and both be wrong depending on the bike.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 00:20 - 20 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
fuzz wrote:

The immobilisation circuit provided...is designed to interrupt the starter circuit. Under no circumstances should it be used to cut the ignition circuit...


Translation= our alarm isn't really that reliable so don't immobilise anything essential.
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fuzz
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PostPosted: 00:58 - 20 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's why it was cheap though. I basically got the immobiliser for free anyway, so I'm not too bothered. If it makes a noise and keeps people busy a little longer than usual it's about as much as I can ask for given the money.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 03:17 - 20 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Y/B wire at the starter relay.
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