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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:10 - 16 Nov 2005    Post subject: Tolls for bikes Reply with quote
Hi

Autocar wrote:

15th November edition

Charge-card tolls to hit Britain in '08
British drivers will be forced to pay road tolls within four years using a charge-card system, according to Department for transport
documents uncovered by Autocar.

The roll-out of tolls in late 2008 (hinted at last month by Transport minister Alistair Darling) looks like it will coincide with motorway widening schemes as well as a radical overhaul of company car taxation and road tax charges in a "big bang" re-alignment of motoring in the UK.

The first confirmation that mass road charging is now a done deal was found in an obscure Department for Transport document alled "Open Minimum Interoperability Specification Suite". Issued in July this year, OMISS details tha technical requirements for anybody building the electronic "on-board units" (OBU) that will be mounted inside the car. The DfT says these OBUs have to be able to communicate with a standard overhead charging gantries (sic), similar to those used on continental motorways.

It's expected that the OBUs will accommodate a charge card that will have money deducted from it every time the vehicle passes a charging point.

The system also breaks down all UK vehicles into one of seven categories including three for goods vehicles, "small and large cars" and motorcycles.

It's also become clear that this is a pan-European scheme. An obscure group known as CESARE has already established a "common electronic fee collection system" for future European road-tolling, making it possible to charge vehicles from one end of Europe to the other. It's thought that the DfT's "tag and beacon" system will be rolled out in London's expanded congestion charge zone.


So, from that it looks like they are intending to hit bikes with tolls.

All the best

Keith
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JonB
Afraid of Mileage



Joined: 03 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 18:15 - 16 Nov 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh fucking fantastic, so during my journey I have to add on 10 minutes to get my card out of my jacket just to give the government my money. Bollocks.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.
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Sparks!
Sir Tart-a-lot



Joined: 30 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: 18:19 - 16 Nov 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Moving out of UK looks ever more a good idea... if it weren't for the fact that I'm on my 1st year apprenticeship I'd be off by now Rolling Eyes Mad
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dave1rs
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:22 - 16 Nov 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
but with the tiny amount of spare space on a bike...how would they find a safe mounting place to retrofit some box or something,without causing damage...i doubt they can and will start with new bikes.....if so id keep an old bike for the toll road trips and new one for the back roads Wink
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 16 Nov 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Mentions a big bang change, so looks likely that they will need to be retrofitted, and I doubt the government care how silly they look.

All the best

Keith
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dave1rs
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 03 Dec 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:33 - 16 Nov 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
but then id just take it off and face the consequnces...bet the fine would be less than a years road charges,i have no objection to charges on major roads as i rarely use them,but i only agree with the idea if the money raised will be spent on improving the road network.

something needs to be done to stop congestion to a certain degree,which riding a bike does...therefore we shouldnt really be penalised...neither should cars with all seats used,but cars with one person etc definitely.

school runs should be penalised too(my opinion)i walked to school as im sure many others did...why cant kids do that now??ever noticed ho w quiet the roads are in school holidays.

perhaps when it is rolled out we may find certain issues have been taken into consideration...just a case of wait and see i guess.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:41 - 16 Nov 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hi

Going off topic here.

dave1rs wrote:
but then id just take it off and face the consequnces...bet the fine would be less than a years road charges


Suspect it would be substantially more. Probably treat it like VED evasion where they are now talking about confiscating and crushing the vehicle. Or they might just hook it up to an ANPR camera and click away, sending you a ticket for £60 and 3 points each time you use it one the roads.

dave1rs wrote:
i have no objection to charges on major roads as i rarely use them,but i only agree with the idea if the money raised will be spent on improving the road network.


Agreed, but considering they are already collecting billions from road users and spending next to nothing on the roads I am not keen on more taxes which will no doubt be hijacked for other purposes.

dave1rs wrote:
something needs to be done to stop congestion to a certain degree,which riding a bike does...therefore we shouldnt really be penalised...neither should cars with all seats used,but cars with one person etc definitely.


Makes a nice soundbite, but doesn't really work out in reality. In free flowing traffic at (say) 30mph the difference in space taken by a car and a bike is nominal. 2 second rule means that they should be leaving a ~30 yard gap, and with that the difference in length between a 2 yard long motorcycle and a 5 yard long car is fairly irrelevant. Bikes are good at avoiding congestion by jumping queues, doesn't mean they are much good at solving it.

Much of the congestion is deliberatly caused, or at least there is no effort made to prevent it (eg, a set of lights near work where most of the traffic turns right, but where they have just installed a virtually unused pedestrian island to stop many people using the right hand lane to go straight on).

dave1rs wrote:
school runs should be penalised too(my opinion)i walked to school as im sure many others did...why cant kids do that now??ever noticed ho w quiet the roads are in school holidays.


Many can't walk because they are now going to school a stupid distance away from where they live, because the parents try to get their kids into the best vaguely local school.

Major reason the roads are empty during the school holidays is because plenty of people take their holidays then. Car park at work is half empty as well.

dave1rs wrote:
perhaps when it is rolled out we may find certain issues have been taken into consideration...just a case of wait and see i guess.


We can hope, but personally I would regard it as a pretty forlorn hope.

All the best

Keith
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 19:40 - 16 Nov 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote
Seems an awful lot of anti-road user stuff being pushed through on the relative quiet.

Hmm, so land is cheap in Canada, isn't it? Confused
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