Super moto/Moto X track as a business.

[Kaben]

This is just a pipe dream at the mo, but i do have access to a substantial amount of money that will be loaned to me interest free to start my own business if i so wish.So let me just ask your opinion on an idea....

With the death knell to legal green laning and the rise in interest in Supermoto/ Moto X, Do you think a track/trail would be a viable business option in the South East?

Without doing much research at all (intending to use you guys as a lazy option), i get the impression that there are not very many locations to get involved in these sports, apart from private farmland.

There is a bunch of land not to far away from where i live that is going on sale cheap, as its by a motorway and also partially wooded.
Would (not getting into the intricacies of planning permission) a dirt/tarmac smoto track be a worthwhile investment. As far as i can see, after initial expenditure on land and building materials for teh track, maintenance costs would be low. Charging an amount for the equivalent of trackday (although not at such high prices) would be initial route of income, then moving onto buying some machines that would be hireable. This would be coupled with someone to maintain the machines. Insurance would be a waiver slip for people bringing their own bikes, but more of a problem when it comes to hireable bikes.

Basically, do you reckon such a business idea (however vague it sounds right now) has any legs to it?
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Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
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[Sparks!]

[Korn]

Insurance is your biggest problem, followed by noise.

By law you do not have to provide ambulance cover or even marshalls to run a practice track, the only time such things become necassary is if and when your insurance policy demands them. The reason insurance cover is expensive and hard to get is because it's an inherently risky activity with plenty of scope for Joe Public to fuck themselves up and run off to Claims Direct or another such ambulance-chasing outfit for a quick earner.

Having said that there are many MX practice tracks that operate without any form of liability insurance, usually run by farmers who keep 'under the radar' on such things.

Noise is the other killer issue, four stroke dirt bikes usually make an awful racket and when NIMBY locals become involved they usually don't last long or are forced to adopt strict restrictions. Just look at what happened to the Castle Coombe circuit when some meddling twat bought a house next to it, or the current noise restrictions being placed on Matchams MX park.

How about an indoor supercross track somewhere in London? Being contained in a building solves the noise issue and I'm sure there are a few suitably massive old warehouses around somewhere...
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3516 Miles, 11 Countries

[Kaben]

Yeah, i knew the insurance would'nt be as simple as what i'd written, but i was in a very lazy, tired mood and couldnt be bothered to type.
Sound was something else i thought of whilst laying in bed.

An indoor track would work better as it wouldnt be afected by weather.
I think ANY large area of space, old or new is going to be expensive in London.
Perhaps moving just outside the M25 somewhere would provide cheaper overheads.

But basically, what im asking you guys.... Is there enough demand for such a business/is there growth in the market as far as you know?

I wouldnt want to set up, just to have three or four lads round a week to trundle round my ludicrously expensive to maintain/insure track.

Also, whats the scene like in Reading? Got some mates i could possibly move up to that area with
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[G]

There is some growth in the market.

An enduro / simpler track could be of interest now that green lanes are going I suspect. Would probably want to try and cram as much as possible on to land.

Hirebikes are a relatively minor thing.
I would look at other activities, especially for corporate events, like quads etc as well as less related things like paintball.

[Kaben]

So, make a less focused eneterprise.....even if it was an indoor arena for example?

Basically i have the oppertunity to make a business that would be interesting for me to own/run. But it would need to be able to return on the enormous amount of efort i would have to put in.
I can see how paintball etc would be a nice side earner/source of income, but initially the project would have to have one focus purely for cost reasons and the like.


So you think that a motoX/smoto track/arena would not be a wildly succesful idea on its own?

I fully understand its a complicated idea, that would need some proper thought/time to create properly, but im trying to get an idea as to whether its worth expending that time/effort!
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[G]

An indoor arena would require a massive amount of work in my opinion. Are we talking at the very least hundreds of thousands you have access to?

I think you would have to be talking very big to ensure it was safe, complied with planning, blah, blah.

While you'd still have to be investing a lot in an off road track outside, it wouldn't have to be so much.

You won't be able to do off road bikes everyday, both because there's not enough people and from a noise point of view, so if you want to make full use of the land you will be paying for, I would be looking at other ways to make money from it as well.

[Kaben]

I have access to at least 100K, but if i put together a decent business plan with projections, info on the market, its growth etc, and sources/routes of income i could get more.

An outdoor idea was my original choice, purely because it would be cheaper to run, but noise pollution would be more of an issue.
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[Sparks!]

A decent indoor supermoto and MX track in the south would see bikers there at every opportunity. I know I would be.. I gave up supermoto due to lack of tracks as there just aren't any down south!

Good luck with that idea though, wouldn't hold your hopes up too much.
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Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[Kaben]

Yeah i know. But my relative who would help finance is a bit of an entrapaneur and if he thinks it could be a hit/is on the up in popularity, he would send money my way(i hope lol!).
Gotta research into it and get facts/figures before i even bring the idea to him.
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[G]

I've only ever really seen indoor supercorss tracks.
To make a decent mx or supermoto track you would need a massive amount of space, suspect we would easily be talking into the millions.

Supercross is usually a lot more tightly packed. All the corners are usually sqaure ones, with no decent fast corners and all the jumps close to each other - so that Americans can watch it in a nice dry areana where they don't have to get wet.
Obviously such a thing would require a massive business plan to justify the investment. I'm not sure anything like this has been done before.

I have wondered about ideas relating to coverings for bike tracks, but this would be for water prevention rather than noise prevention.




Bike noise is being clamped down on all the time, best bet would be to find an already noisey location, preferably with good landscape (ie hills all the way around).

Now an indoor minimoto track this end of the country could have possibilities .

[Kaben]

Only other thing for indoor is size.

bigger warehouses come with heftier rents per Sq Ft. How long/wide would you reckon an average track should be? obviously it twist back on itself within the area, but you want a decentish length straightaway.
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[Dom]

I think it'd be well worth you getting some first hand experience of what's currently available offroad-wise before making any big decisions.

Me and Sparks went down to Matchams last Sunday to watch an enduro and there's a so much going on there it's hard to believe. Not only did they have this 8 mile enduro track (not a 100% permanent one admittedly... yet at least) but they had a minimoto/kart track and a GP-spec MX track as well as pretty decent practice track. If you were considering a venue like this you should definitely get an idea of just what is currently around.

G's (I think, cba to read back ) dead right about there being potential for 'ambulance chasers' etc, specifically with something like an enduro where really anyone watching can get as close as they want to.

There is definitely a lot of interest in offroad riding though so I think if you could manage to pull of a good track of whatever kind people would be interested. Whether you could turn that into a profit or not I don't know, the startup costs would definitely be pretty high whatever kind of track you're looking at.

This is not a definitive list by any means but covers most of the bigger tracks around: Link. Also checkout TMX news to get an idea of where there are active offroading clubs/groups.
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Photos and that

[goony]

https://www.westonsx.co.uk/

[Kaben]

man i wish they had a more extensive site, looks impressive!
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[loply]

One thing you have in your advantage is that it could potentially cost very little to start up.

You could start a profit-sharing arrangement with the land provider (a farmer for instance), and so your only overhead would be cones, insurance and advertising (which you may not even need to begin with).

I wouldnt go ploughing thousands of pounds into it, until youve seen that it works.
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Yamaha SZR660 Caution to the wind, the throttle pinned!

[Kaben]

going to go look in the thompson local/yellow pages for farmers who like bikes lol. Will probably be finished in about oooo, i dunno 10 seconds

Definitely worth investigating, but dont like the idea of what i possibly start up being pulled fom underneath me and taken over by the landowner.
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[G]

[Kaben]

I know. Im going down the council next week to talk to a planning permission man. Gonna ask him what areas wouldnt have that restriction and ask for any advice/info he thinks is relevant.

Theres lots of motorway around here, so a bit of scrubland next to a noisy m-way/main road should be able to avoid noise restrictions.....fingers crossed.

Indoor is way out of my league though........looking at prices like £3 per Sq Ft!!!!!!! Thats insane, considering the space needed! would need serious inverstors and backing by a race organisation.....not what im looking for.
Gonna be outside, dirty, wet and a load of fun. Just means the track will need rebuilding more often.......
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[G]

Motocross tracks often have to have sprinklers because they can get too dry - so it's not just the rain you have to look out for.

Also worth looking for industrial estates and big factories, especially those that run at weekends.

Me and Korn went to a field with a few trails around, just at the end of Heathrow - can't see there being too many complaints there!

[Kaben]

lol, im sure there wouldnt, but being next to a major airport, and our capital city may make it a tad expensive.
Easy to find though lol

Is partly why im going to see this council bloke. Hopefully he can point out some shitty places with space for sale that i can buy up cheaply without having to worry about noise regs.
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[G]

Problem is England's pretty densily populated and sound from off road bikes does travel a fair way when you've got 20+ of them.

Quite hard to find somewhere with enough distance to the cloeset houses or where there are people that will say "yes, I don't mind there being constant noise here at the weekends".

[Kaben]

yarrr, tis true, tis true.

But gonna see what i can find out anyway.
____________________
Its Not a Melon, Its Clearly a Lime!!
Yamaha Fazer 600Now dead, MZ 125 SM
My Deviant Art homepage https://robabloke.deviantart.com/

[numark1]

The track i used to go to by the M3/M25 Thorpe interchange went downhill when someone was killed on it. It used to cost me £35 for 3 half hour sessions which was quite expensive compared to the £15 all day it used to be.

Scrap the idea and open up a night club. I was thinking of that but finance would be a problem as i would want a large building and have foam party's and shit.

[Fatgreek]

It would appear it is possible to get a track after all

We've just had word that our proposal has been well received by all parties including our local council, the police, community safetyb and residents and we hope to have our track in the near future.

Go for it
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