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| Bendy |
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Bendy
Mrs Sensible
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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| MarJay |
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MarJay
But it's British!
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| DucatiEVO |
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DucatiEVO
Could Be A Chat Bot
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| LeonClayton |
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LeonClayton
Two Stroke Sniffer
Joined: 14 Dec 2005
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 Posted: 22:32 - 14 Dec 2005  Post subject: |
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we are loosing alot of track companies, lost my favorite this year as well. european superbike school.
Sorry for those that will loose money.  |
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| Bendy |
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Bendy
Mrs Sensible
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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Posted: 14:22 - 21 Dec 2005  Post subject: |
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| Phil Darbyshire wrote: |
Greetings to you all.
Many thanks to all those who sent Debbie & I messages after the last email-shot (we had more than we could have dreamed of and far too many to reply to individually).
I'm sure that most of you will get bored with this email before the end, however, we have had many emails and phone calls since sending out our last email, from people asking "WHY". Well the truth will out.
The main reason for giving up the Track Days is that, some years ago one of my customers fell off after running into the back of another rider. The person that fell off then tried to pursue me for compensation.
When this claim finally went away (after more than 3 years), I did say that if anyone else tried to make a claim against me, I would shut the company down. In September the inevitable solicitors letter landed on my desk and the second claim is now being investigated.
I know that we live in a Claims Culture but it's about time that people realised that sometimes the blame lies with themselves and you can't always make someone else pay for your own or their own mistakes.
I myself have had two major offs at the track which could be blamed on others, one at Donington in 95 which resulted in 5 broken ribs, a broken arm & collar bone plus concussion. Then in 96 at Mallory I ended up with a shattered sternum (this breaks all of your ribs apart from the floating one) another broken collar bone and damage to my right leg which left the doctors considering amputation. Having a different mind-set to some of my customers of late, I knew that I may fall off and get hurt but I also knew that I couldn't get the same buzz anywhere else, so I just accepted the risk.
Some months ago Jamie Whitham said in the MCN that it would be the threat of claims that would kill the track day business and how right he is. In the same publication on a different occasion you had that much respected (and I mean that, as Top Gear is one of my favourite shows) journalist Richard Hammond stating that if the organiser cocks things up, they're fair game for a claim. I take it that this is in view of his vast experience of bike track days, or as a presenter of a TV show, whereby the only people on track are the film crew and him. Perhaps he forgot to mention "THE ORGANISER IS NOT THE ONE WHO TWISTS THE THROTTLE" but hey, we all know how journalist think "Why let the truth get in the way of a good story or pay packet"
Then you have the power of the internet and the various forums (visor down & throttle monkeys to name 2). How they can do things better than me and what they think of me or my Rider Brief (and how they are unable to measure time, as the brief never lasted more than 22 minutes, unless due to interruptions from the knobs who forget to switch off their phones), I can't stand doing the briefs but if I didn't, I wonder how many more people would try and make a claim. Well I really don't give a dam what they think of me but I do take exception when they start getting personal with my family or staff. Now that we're not going to be running track days, I wonder how many of those people on these web sites that tell me how to run my business are going to have the balls to put their house on the line for a bunch of belly aching babies, cause if any of them want to, I'll happily sell them the rights to my trading name. May I suggest that before you pick up the phone consider this; I turned over nearly half a million pounds this season and haven't got enough left in the bank to pay me or Debbie for December without going overdrawn (this is after we refunded everyone we could).
I don't expect to be inundated with potential buyers from either of the above forums (but it would be nice to be wrong).
The same two web sites are always belly aching about one mans attempts at global dominance, with that in mind, may I suggest that you consider using Mark from No Limits, as I'm told that they run things pretty much the same as us and I know for a fact that they took most of the dates that I released when I decided to pack it all in.
They can be contacted on 07000 600 750 (and no, it's not a mobile).
Another reason why it was easy to walk away is that in meeting some truly wonderful people, I've also encountered some who fit into other categories "Would you want to deal with these people if you didn't need too"
The likes of two people from the ACU trying to instigate I D Cards so that they could screw money out of track day riders, why ?, because they can. I fought for nearly two years to make this go away, as I saw it as a guarantee that it would kill track days.
You have members of The Association of Track Day Operators (ATDO) trying to bring in rulings about insurance (which very nearly closed down the track day business) and to put the records straight "I was the only Bike Track Day Organiser at the first meeting, consequently I was the only Founder Member on the bike side of things. Those that state anything other than this will of course be able to prove me wrong by showing me their name on the minutes.
The reason I resigned as a Director of ATDO was that I was always questioning some of the other directors motives and I could never shake the feeling that deals were being done outside of the remit of the organisation.
Perhaps someone may raise a question along the lines of; Now that ATDO is no longer seen to be an active body, what's going to happen with the many thousands of pounds in the bank account, cause I could sure do with a few quid.
Then the nonsense about you must hold a full unrestricted bike licence at Brands, Cadwell, Oulton & Snetterton initially and then at most other circuits of late, Why ?, well that depends on the organiser, you see if you book direct with some of the circuits it's not really an issue as they have one rule for me the independent and one rule for themselves (now that would be an interesting court case if something were to happen on one of there days and the person didn't have a full unrestricted licence).
Having said that, I take great pride in knowing that I managed to bend and even ignore the rules with a number of the younger riders. The two that give me the greatest sense of satisfaction are Luke Hinton & Joe Burns and it will be interesting to watch what these two teenagers achieve in years to come.
You have the appalling way in which the circuit owners and operators treat us the track day organiser (with the exception of Richard from Anglesey).
A few points in question are; the Northern Circuit where the staff at ground level are truly wonderful but the man who owns the circuit has never seen fit to shake my hand (even though I've spent around 200k with him and when we first started going there, it was difficult to get a sea gull to land, never mind getting riders to come to the circuit) but hey, how quickly do we forget.
I have had to fight with the circuits because they see fit to pay the marshals peanuts but they want top dollar from the organiser, consequently some of the marshals are younger/older than you would expect and have no sense of urgency about them, thus losing you the person who pays their wages, precious track time. Another observation is that the average value of the bikes on track is about 5k, the average value of the recovery vehicles is about a fifth of this. It may not be of consequence to you now but just think about it when your in an ambulance on your way to the med centre and your bike is being thrown into or onto the back of something that isn't worth what your wheels are.
Bare in mind that I designed a machine for getting rid of frost & ice off the circuits nearly ten years ago (at a cost to the circuits of £8,000.00) and not one circuit was interested in it. You see, they really don't care if you can't get out, as they have already had the organisers money and if the day is cancelled, it's not their problem but the organisers.
Some of you who were booked on to the Donington event on the 3rd of October will know this first hand. All of my customers have been refunded for this event, however, I was assured that my contact at Donington would ring me last Tuesday (13th Dec) and let me know if I would get my deposit (£4,000.00 + vat) refunded, which means that me & Debbie will be able to draw a wage this month, so that we can do some Christmas shopping, Guess What? I'm still waiting for a phone call.
I know that they won't even want to discuss the out of pocket expenses involved in processing the bookings and then refunding everyone after the event was cancelled (and by the way, many thanks to the emailer who let me know about the situation. It staggers me that one of my customers told me and not the circuit)
I hope it doesn't lead to it, but perhaps I may need to enter into a legal battle over breach of contract, as they are the ones who forgot to tell me that my customers would not have use of the Pit Garages (as stated on my contract).
If any of those many customers we have in the legal world, wish to take on the case, please give me a ring.
I'm forever being told that the circuits must really look after us because of how much we spend with them, well let me make it perfectly clear that in spending well over 2 million pounds at the Brands Hatch group of circuits, I have never had so much a free pass for the world superbikes.
What about me sending the circuit staff stuff out at Christmas as a way of saying thank you and to try and get the better dates.
I don't suppose you'll be surprised to find out that I have yet to receive ONE PRESENT from any of the circuit owners (except for a raffle prize for one of our many fund raising exercises) and that's in 13 years, spending more than 5 million pounds on track hire. I've just sent out parcels to 18 of my clients (for another company I run) as a way of saying thank you for your support and I hope we can service your future needs. Needless to say, I don't think Santa will be calling with shed loads of goodies from the circuits.
Well here's a bit of free advice. 68% of all customers move on because of apathy.
If any of the circuit owners wish to ring me for an explanation, I'll be happy to discuss the matter but please bare in mind that I now charge out at £400 + vat per day for my advice.
Then you get the weekly & monthly motorcycling press phoning you up asking if they can have free places for a bit of a mention in the next issue. Well the truth is that I'm one of the very few that insisted that they are the people who should be paying, as they have more funds available than the vast majority of my non press customers and more often than not they took the Mickey and expected things that no one else would dare ask for.
Perhaps you should be thinking why the EMAP Group (MCN + others) are one of the best performing companies on the stock market and then consider why the remaining organisers should think about staying in the business when the cost of advertising and circuits is going up but the customers want to pay less and they are keen to try and screw you if they fall off.
What about the Bike / Tyre / Parts / Spares Manufacturers & Importers (Ducati, Honda, Kawasaki, Suzuki, Triumph & Yamaha), well they're trying to get everything for nothing. Think about this; remove the track day market from the above and with the exception of Triumph you'll end up with a few Italian & Japanese importers, making a few redundancy's, so it's about time they got off there high horses and realised that if it wasn't for the likes of me, they would have disappeared up their own import licence of few years ago. You see they think that everyone out there buys a bike cause some famous blokes being paid millions. The fact is that since the advent of track days, people are able to feel for themselves "What It's All About".
I have always had to defend the argument of "Who invented Track Days". The fact is that people were hiring race tracks for many years before I came on the scene but I defy anybody to come up with evidence that they invented the terminology.
Fact; I was made redundant at 08.50 hrs on the 18th June 1992 and decided to set up a Track Day business.
Fact; the terms Track Day & Track Time were born that day (if only I'd Copy Written them)
Fact; the first ever official Track Day was at Mallory Park on the 5th November 1992
With all this in mind, I have been advised to write a book about things that have happened so far in my life. The person who advised me to write it, recons that those who don't like me will buy it to see if they are mentioned and those who do like me will buy it for the memories. ONLY TIME WILL TELL.
Told you it would be boring!!!
Our very best wishes go to everyone (without exception)
Phil & Debbie
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| White Noise |
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White Noise
Mr Dudwee
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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| Posted: 15:29 - 21 Dec 2005 Post subject: |
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if that e-mail, he states the the main reason that he is shutting up shop is another claim has been made against him, i thought that the who point of signing a disclaimer was that you couldn't make a claim against them
the person was on the track and came off, was it Phil Darbyshire's personal fault you came off?
of course don't know the ins and outs of the claim and have never used track time promotions before but it seems a shame and wonder if as he says the claim culture will end up killing the track day industry.
WN
____________________
Buy my wife: 96' Yam XJ600s (Diversion)
Wing Commander White Noise - SE Clique
Riding Tip #86: See God, then back off a bit: Problem is i haven't seen god yet, just a close up of tarmac on revett straight |
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Davo
Davo To The Rescue!
Joined: 04 Apr 2004
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| Bendy |
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Bendy
Mrs Sensible
Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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| Posted: 17:04 - 21 Dec 2005 Post subject: |
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Wouldn't be surprised to see some form of trackday insurance popping up - not insurance for your bike but insurance to cover you being sued by another rider who decides it's your fault that they crashed. 
How anyone can think their accident is the TDO's fault is beyond me - sure I've been on days when the track conditions are arguably not that safe or there are people who are riding dangerously within a group who should have been removed (the only two possible angles I can see), but no-one forces you to take your bike out each session.
It was once pointed out to us in a briefing that 'the grass is less grippy than the tarmac'. Apparently someone had crashed and tried to sue on the basis that no-one had told him that fact. 
Enjoy it while it lasts people. |
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| MarJay |
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MarJay
But it's British!
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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| Posted: 17:14 - 21 Dec 2005 Post subject: |
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All I can say is:
Buggeration.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another. |
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| White Noise |
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White Noise
Mr Dudwee
Joined: 17 Dec 2004
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Posted: 17:30 - 21 Dec 2005  Post subject: |
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| kb-zxr |
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kb-zxr
Could Be A Chat Bot
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
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| Posted: 23:00 - 21 Dec 2005 Post subject: |
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Shame to see it happen.
If I have an accident, I think I might sue Mr Darling. I am using his roads after all |
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| Silver |
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Silver
World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Oct 2004
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| Posted: 23:21 - 21 Dec 2005 Post subject: |
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I don't like the direction this is heading. I detest the blame culture and the American influence of always looking for someone to sue. It's ridiculous, like the person who (successfully!) sued McDonalds for burning their mouth on a cup of coffee, because it hot! (SHOCK!) It would never even occur to me to consider suing someone for crashing on track, except in the case of extreme negligence. Unfortunately, as mentioned in Phil's email, some people are idiots, and some people will complain at anything (given half a chance).
I hope we do not see more trackday organisers going this way otherwise our costs are going to rise and our options fall.
I would think that trackdays account for a large percentage of revenue for most circuit owners. Let's hope they see this and help to address any issues before they're unrectifiable. |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 20 years, 9 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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