Hunting/killing animals

[Rookie]

Right, this has been playing on my mind heavily for about 24 hours, as I'm ill so have had nothing better to do.

Those who watched Long Way Round; I saw a repeat last night. When they arrive in America and the bikes are being serviced, so they go out and see the bears, they have an argument over hunting. And I think Euan brought up a very good point.

Basically, he said hunting of all aspects is completely wrong, because you're killing a creature that can feel pain, for pleasure. Charley raised the point that if you're not vegetarian, you can't really complain, as the meat your eating has been killed for your pleasure. Fair enough in the 'olden' days people ate meat to survive, but I was told a statistic; if eating crops is 100% efficiency for substinence for humans, then eating meat is 10% efficiency. So effectively, you're having animals killed, purely for pleasure. This got me thinking; there are all these people who are so against fox hunting (I'm not particularly keen either) but who have no problem eating a 24oz Porterhouse steak. What's the difference? You're still killing an animal for pleasure.

This led to a situation we had this morning. Our cat brought in a mouse from the garden and injured it but didn't kill it, it was crawling around, squeaking. So I decided to be humane and put it out of its misery. Now I didn't sleep last night (long story) and I wasn't really fit for much, and when I hit it with a rock I missed slightly and didn't kill it, it just squeaked. Horrified by what I was doing, I tried again and managed to do it.

Now I felt I did the right thing, but the fact that I caused it pain instead of killing it quickly was very upsetting for me. I shed a tear, seriously. It made me think about the mentality behind hunting as a whole. I eat meat, I don't pretend to be a raging vegetarian, but the idea of killing something for sport just doesn't seem right to me. I mean, what happened this morning wasn't intentional, and the situation arose out of natural instinct on our cats' behalf. Yet the whole thing was just entirely unpleasant.

It makes me wonder about the so-called 'human condition'; a desire to kill each other. Why do hunters kill for fun? What is the fun in it? Personally I just don't see what pleasure can be gained from shooting some birds, I just don't see it. In the past, I think I've spoken a different opinion, vermin and all that, but this today really changed my perspective. If I were given the opportunity to kill something which didn't require killing, be it a painless death or not, I would certainly not want to carry it out.

And this leads me to another idea. I don't think I could ever go to war. The idea of killing someone who could be so similar to you, even though you're supposed to be enemies. If I were in the 1st World War, when Britain played football against Germany on Christmas Day, I don't think I could have done that. Playing against my enemy, I think if I were ever in combat, I'd have to become hugely detached from what I was doing, just to pull the trigger. So seeing them up close and seeing how identical they were to me, would just be too much.

I guess this is just about the human condition; why do we kill?

Discuss.

[m99dws]

If we weren't meant to eat animals, they wouldn't be made out of meat.

[Mr.Everready]

Havn't read it all but got to the fox thing.
The people that compain about fox hunting are not against the fox being killed but against the way it is done, by a pack of dogs.
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the undemocratically unelected mod of the Scottish section

[R4nger]

Meat tastes good
To be honest there are more important things to worry about than the humanity of killing a mouse

*edit*

My auntie hunts and I wouldn't stop her.

[Rookie]

[Adam_P]

I didn't climb to the top of the food chain to eat bloody Quorn or Soya!

Meat, 'tis goo for you!
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Colin McRae MBE 1968 - 2007 RIP
Orwell Rolls in his Grave
God is imaginary

[m99dws]

[tokarev]

We are made so that we can eat meat. Our teeth and digestive system is evidence of this.

We started off as hunters in the cave man days, hunting animals. We ate the fat for warmth etc.. It was only unitl much later that we (humans) started farming crops. I believe it is more healthy for us to eat meat aswell as vegetables.

I think killing an animal for fun or for a trophy is wrong but believe that killing an animal for food is fine.

[landy.s11a]

Rookie, I feel the same way about the killing of animals for pleasure
but if I had the choice I would hunt for my own food, or kill my own lamb etc, that way only what I need for my own sustanance would be killed, you buy meat or fish in the supermarket that results in the death of so many animals it is defo a waste of life, at the end of the selling day the amount of wasted meat is disgusting. I used to be a manager in Asda many years ago and I had to supervise the 'out of date' food into the huge compactors, imagine how many supermarkets do that each day.
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[McGee]

Never hunted a animal I would happily shoot it but couldnt gut it.

I like meat cause it tastes good.
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Its pronounced Jixxer!

[MikeH]

Dunno if you ever saw that thing on TV by that Dr ??? Winston chap about human evolution, but it wasn't until we started to eat cooked meat that our brains developed to the size they are today, ergo if we didn't eat meat we'd all be thick chavs walking on our knuckles

I hunt and I also eat what I catch, I do it partly for the pleasure of walking in gods country but also to save a few quid by using natures pantry. Men and animals have done it since they first walked the earth it's not wrong it's a natural instinct to feed yourself.

As for Fox hunting, thats a whole other debate, what ticks me off about it is the people who so vermently oppose it really do need to get a reality check, they live in their nice surburban homes or city flats with no real idea what's going on out there.
Rabbits are still being snared and poisened in their hundres, farm animals get treated cruelly all the time by farmers who can't afford to take care of thier stock, birds a bred to be blown apart with shotguns, but it's not high profile like fox hunting and it doesn't get one over on the toffs. In reality very few fox's are killed by hunting with dogs in comparison to other activities and there are bigger things out their these town folks should be concerned about like the middle east conflicts rather than whether some mingy fox gets snuffed.

Perhaps all the farmers, farmworkers, and other general rural dwellers should start protesting about all the townies that come out at weekends to trample all over their land, leave gates open, destroy fences and pollute their air with thier urban offroaders etc etc.......... trouble is that won't get votes....will it ?

None of it's about hunting it's all about votes !


[/rant off]

Mike

Wheres me beer gone ?
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Busa Junkie

[tonyyzf]

In the last 3 weeks I've shot and killed one fox, seen two others being shot, I've shot the best part of 20 red deer, including calves, we shoot nearly 200 annually, none of it done for sport, all done for land management reasons, reasons that you probably wouldn't even understand. If Scottish Natural Heritage had their way they would tell us to shoot all the deer in the Highlands, why? cos they eat trees!

There is not enough land to sustain crops to feed the world, animals can use vegetatian better than us, they turn grass into good edible protein that the human body requires to survive.

What about vegetarians I hear you ask? if vegetables are so good why do they have to supplement their diet with vitamin pills etc. And,, why do they always make their veggie burgers taste like real meat??

Being a vegetarian is a luxury of the modern lifestyle, you wait till the shit hits the fan, you'll be so hungry you'd eat your neighbour, thats if he don't get you first.

[MikeH]

[Danny]

[ashley_46]

I don't see the problem with eating meat because thats the way nature intends things to happen. Just think back to science lessons and the food chain. Animals eat animals and at the end of the day thats all we are. We are just the animals at the top of the food chain.

I do disagree with killing for fun but killing for survival is a totally different matter and it happens all over the animal kingdom. Lions eat Antelope etc, Bears eat fish and we eat just about anything we like. You could almost argue that we do a kinder job of it than the other animals as well because we try and make it painless and ensure that for every cow,sheep or chicken etc we replace it and keep the population of that breed going.

I just can't understand vegetarians who dissagree with eating meat but are quite happy to wear animal products as if its a totally different matter.

Also on a side note, whats the major difference between us eating cows and koreans etc eating dog. How can people call that barbaric and cruel when we do exactly the same with a different animal. Its as if people are saying certain animals are more valuable than others.

[colin1]

its not really about any harrm you cause as a hunter, its people objecting to someone taking pleasure in making an animal suffer.

People find that distasteful.

If someone killed my cat and then ate it, I wdnt say oh thats ok then cos he killed it for food.

The cat doesnt give a shit whether its been killed for food or for amusement. It wont like it either way.

I wouldnt mind having a go at hunting as my cats seem to have a good time killing mice so it must be fun.

There is a lot of emotional, non-rational rubbish talked on this topic.

I dont think i could bring myself to kill a baby deer though so I'm a bit non-rational myself.
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[RickHolt]

People all over the world are fighting for animal rights in farm environments. They don't like animals being caged, people pay extra for free range chickens etc. Yet if you tell the same people that you go hunting and shoot wild birds they disagree with it because it's cruel. I can't see how you can get much more free range.

This is a topic I quite like but at the same time I'm tired of having to discuss it with the kind of people that wont accept meat has to come from somewhere. There is a fun side to hunting, it's just natural, but personally I wouldn't be that interested in hunting just for pleasure.

Sorry if this makes no sense it's late, I'll post again tommorow.

Rick.



EDIT: One more quick point, think about the amount of money/effort hunters and people with similar interests put into the countryside. If these things were to be banned, you would probably see a massive decline in the standards of the countryside and decreases in species/populations. There's alot more to it than just hunting for food/pleasure.

[The View Askew]

Maybe the bible holds the key. i am told it says that as a result of sin, animals strayed from their given herbivore instincts and began to feed on each other.
after all humans ARE animals. whether you like the sound of it or not, the fact remains.
The net rusult of my ramblings is. its okay to kill an animal if you intend to eat it. other reasons should not be acceptable. the one exception being pest control, then again, define pest. it takes the piss there is always a valid argument for everything,. It irritates me vigorously. VIGOROUSLY.

soul.
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"Do what you always did, get what you always got"

[MikeH]

Thats Ok if you believe in religion, personally I think it's a crock! it's the cause of too many problems.........look at the muslim extremists who are kicking off about some poxy cartoons in the name of religion.
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Busa Junkie

[Simple]

I haven't read all the replies,

but I hunt for 'fun or sport' I dont feel any remorse, if I dont kill the bunny, its going to get ripped to shreds by a cat/fox anyway.
I also know how to dispatch an animal that is suffering.

Living on a farm, where those cute fluffy lambs will only live for 18months before they end up on my plate, damn tasty they are too. I don't feel and remorse or guilt.

If no one ate the meat, the lambs wouldn't be born.. they wouldn't exist,


I also think that now fox hunting is banned that it hasnt helped the fox at all, so far since new years day we've trapped and killed 6... zero tolerance. last year we didnt care too much unless they bothered the chickens.

I think people are two tame, the thought of killing something for food turns people into these weird creatures that are ruled by their morals and emotions which society has given them.
I wouldn't have an issue with killing something for food. even if it involved smashing its head in with a stick. I'm a predator, my need would be greater than the fluffy bunny that there are 500more or running round the same farm.


I could chat crap for hours on this subject as it's something I fell passionately about and in the nanny state we live in it's something I will fight for the right to do... kill cute fluffy creatures
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[Simple]

[Simple]

[The View Askew]

[DEN MONKEY]

Killling for food in my book is an ok thing, however I do agree that the scale it is done on and the following waste is somewhat of an issue.

As for hunting no real issue there with the one exception ...and its a biggie.
I'm pretty sure you've all seen the video clip of the guys hunting a lion and the lion taking a charge at the guy trying to shoot it. If you havent, needless to say this retard is surrounded by like minded individuals who nail the tiger after it damn near rips his head off. after he misses (i think )
Once theyve filled it with enough lead to drop a rhino its high fives all round and some macho "yeah" thrown about.
What fuckin drivel. If you want to feel like a man by hunting, then how bout leveling the playing field a bit and take a real chance.
That is, hunt with a big fuck off knife but no 10 guys with rifles against one cat ...albeit a very big cat is plain bullshit.

Thats what gets me dirty about the fox thing. How many nongs on horses and how many dogs does it take to pull down on bloody fox. Thats not hunting its just slaughter and I dont give a rats arse if they try and rationalise it as sport.

Living in Australia you kinda get used to having to kull certain "pests" for various reasons. Kanagroo are the perfect example. There are also limits here to maintain an equalibrium. So fair's fair.

[nrml76]

I used to hunt when I was younger. As a matter of principle, I never killed anything I wouldn't eat, and I never killed more than I could reasonably eat. When I was a kid, my best mate, who's family are into hunting in a big way, once shot a strange smelly water bird, when they were out shooting ducks. His dad was so cross with him for doing so, that he made him eat that bird for lunch while the rest of the family had duck. If I had kids I would probably do the same in a similar situation.