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PC Problem - powering off

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Silver
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: [HELP!] PC Problem - powering off Reply with quote

This is really begining to do my head in...

A little while ago my desktop PC began powering itself down now and again without warning and somewhat randomly. Now it seems to be doing it more often and it's pissing me off because I don't know what's causing it. Firstly, I'll clarify. When I saying powering off, I don't mean shutting down nicely, I mean off like if you had a power cut.

The first thing I did was check the temperatures to see if the CPU, graphics card etc were overheating. No problem there.

The next thing I assumed was the PSU was dodgy/struggling. The reason for thinking this is that every time it happens I cannot restart the PC without first unplugging the power lead. Wierd. Confused

Anyway, this morning I swapped the 400w unit in the PC for a 450w one I had lying around. All seemed fine and I've been using it for most of the day. The bloody thing has just powered off twice in the last five minutes. I'm typing this on my laptop because I don't trust the PC! Laughing

Any ideas?
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fuzz
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ahve the same problem, but it only shuts down once per session, like it hasn't warmed up yet!

I think it occured when I did the last BIOS update. There's still only a beta version which I'm reluctant to try, but maybe you could give it a go with your board manufacturer.
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Silver
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've had the same board in the PC for about 18 months though. It's only started doing it in the last two months or so...

I am tempted to believe it could be a motherboard/CPU problem though. Evil or Very Mad
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divuk83
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the event log to see what kind of error is causing it to shut down. Also try running mem test to check for errors. What kind of memory are you using? What programme are you using just before it re-starts?

Dave
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Retro-Man
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

you have already checked psu and overheating, so would be inclined to agree with a suspect motherboard.
I would however be tempted the check the power connector to the motherboard (should not be an issue if youve already swapped the psu) and you could also try disabling any power mngt in both the bios and windows before plumping for a board.

what mainboard are you using Question
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

What CPU is it, AMD or Intel?
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daz|n00by
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you checke din the bios what shutdown temp you have set?

If you have started to over heat then you may hitting the temp needed to shut down the pc.

Doubt it is this but its cheaper to check than just buy a mb
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hit it.

No seriously, the work computer was doing exactly the same thing. I gave it the old fashioned "Kick and Blow test" by lifting it six inches off the desk and dropping it.

It is amazing how often that works, often a poorly seated componant is jarred back into place.
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Silver
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

divuk83 wrote:
Check the event log to see what kind of error is causing it to shut down. Also try running mem test to check for errors. What kind of memory are you using? What programme are you using just before it re-starts?


Nothing in the events logs. Mem test might be an idea I guess. I'm running a pair of Corsair 512Mb DDR400 chips.

Retro-Man wrote:
what mainboard are you using Question


It's an MSI KT6 Delta.

Craig- wrote:
What CPU is it, AMD or Intel?


AMD Athlon XP 3200+

daz|n00by wrote:
Have you checke din the bios what shutdown temp you have set?

If you have started to over heat then you may hitting the temp needed to shut down the pc.


No shutdown temperature set and if I check all the temperatures immediately after it reboots they're all normal.

stinkwheel wrote:
Hit it.


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iCraig
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

With it being an AMD, I personally think its shutting down due to heat, and don't rely on the Mobo sensors as they lie or it may not even touching the CPU to get a correct reading.

Just to rule it out, take of the Heatsink, and reseat the CPU and put the heatsink back on with some new paste.
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divuk83
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig- wrote:
don't rely on the Mobo sensors as they lie or it may not even touching the CPU to get a correct reading.

Just to rule it out, take of the Heatsink, and reseat the CPU and put the heatsink back on with some new paste.


Worth a try. My DFI board temps went down almost 10 degrees just from updating the bios!

Do you have the overheat protection enabled?

Dave
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carvell
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 04 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say a dodgy power supply.
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Silver
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PostPosted: 00:44 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig- wrote:
Just to rule it out, take of the Heatsink, and reseat the CPU and put the heatsink back on with some new paste.


I'll give it a go. Thumbs Up

carvell wrote:
I'd say a dodgy power supply.


I've already swapped it, as per my original post. Wink
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daz|n00by
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PostPosted: 01:01 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok well if its not a heat prob and its not a power supply prob, then i would defo start thinking along the lines of dodgy ram.

What have you got in?
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason why I suggest the CPU is AMD's are programmed to shutdown if they get too hot, where as Intels throttle themselves till they cool down enough.

I've had it before when the BIOS is telling me the CPU isn't hot but it was shutting down, I added an external thermometer, and it read 70 degrees and the BIOS said 56 degrees I'd have hated to think what the core temp was if the heatsink was at 70!
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Silver
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PostPosted: 01:23 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig- wrote:
The reason why I suggest the CPU is AMD's are programmed to shutdown if they get too hot, where as Intels throttle themselves till they cool down enough.

I've had it before when the BIOS is telling me the CPU isn't hot but it was shutting down, I added an external thermometer, and it read 70 degrees and the BIOS said 56 degrees I'd have hated to think what the core temp was if the heatsink was at 70!


Yep, AMD chips run hotter than Intel's too (and suck more juice). I think (from memory) it's about 90 degrees before the implode! Shocked

Can't be arsed doing anything about tonight though.
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numark1
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PostPosted: 02:45 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wil try and explain this as best as posible but not in a god state at teh momnent. Bit wrecked.

Set a sutdown temp if there is none, but a high one.

daz|n00by wrote:
Have you checke din the bios what shutdown temp you have set?

If you have started to over heat then you may hitting the temp needed to shut down the pc.

Doubt it is this but its cheaper to check than just buy a mb


Take everythih out of the pc, clean it wit compressed air (pc wrld etc) put it back togehter.

Then run the pc with noo covers on and properly ventilated, use a fan or something to col it down even omre.

Also diconnect everythin apart fom the bare mininum like take out the cd-rom, floppy, anything usb etc.

Mne used to shut down because of a dodgy DVD-RW and it took me a new mobo, cpu, ram and dvdrw to figure it out. Laughing
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Rob W
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be inclined to believe you've got some dodgy RAM.

Couple of years back our PC was doing the exact same thing, so I ended up changing nearly every component only to find it was the RAM in the end. Luckily I was able to take all the other bit's back, and it's been fine ever since. If ever people mention a problem like that, and you can rule out the PSU and an overheating problem the first thing to check is the RAM. If possible try and borrow a stick or so off of a friend and give it a try.

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fuzz
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig- wrote:
Just to rule it out, take of the Heatsink, and reseat the CPU and put the heatsink back on with some new paste.


Get some arctic silver on there, best paste for thermal conductivity.
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 15:11 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

fuzz wrote:
Get some arctic silver on there, best paste for thermal conductivity.


Its also the best for fuseing the cpu to the heatsink. Razz
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daz|n00by
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig- wrote:
fuzz wrote:
Get some arctic silver on there, best paste for thermal conductivity.


Its also the best for fuseing the cpu to the heatsink. Razz


Plus its absorbed by the skin! not a good thing to have being absorbed into your blood stream tbh.

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divuk83
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 05 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whats memtest coming up with Silver? If it comes up with noting try taking one stick of RAM out at a time and seeing if its any more/less stable and if the problem re-occurs.

Dave
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Tarmacsurfer
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PostPosted: 03:32 - 06 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver, I was running an MSI K7N2-delta with a Barton 3200+, started having the self same problem. Then my partners XP2000+ on an Asus board did the same. Tried pretty much everything in the book plus a few things that weren't. Same situation as you, systems on alot, randomly lose all power and would not reboot at all without being disconnected from the mains for a few seconds (12-30 usually worked).

To this day I still don't know precisely what the problem actually was, but both systems returned to stable once I replaced old surge protectors. Personally I'm assuming the mains lines were spiking badly and somehow triggered the over voltage circuit in the PSUs, it's the only explanation I can come up with that makes even a little sense.

Of course, it may well just be the gremlins. We all know they're real...
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 07:22 - 06 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was a RAM problem like some people are suggesting would the computer actually boot passed POST?

Also if it were to get passed it, then surely you'd see an exeception BSOD before Windows XP crashes, unless you've got it to automatically restart after a crash?
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divuk83
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 06 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had 3 duff sets of Crucial Balistix that caused it to shut down randomly. I tried replacing the mother board, the PSU etc and narrowed it down to the memory. Mine used to boot fine then randomly give me a blue screen of death and shutdown! I'm just glad crucial are good with RMA'ing stuff!

Dave
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