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| craigie b |
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craigie b
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 Posted: 20:46 - 12 Mar 2006  Post subject: SAS man quits after witnessing US troops acting immorally |
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas12.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/12/ixhome.html
I found this story to be quite condemming of the US militaries actions in Iraq. I know some on here see the US as a country that does very little wrong however I find the words of an SAS man to be more credible that that of most politicians.
It takes a lot for a guy who has dedicated his life to achieving SAS status to simply walk away and I doubt it is something he did lightly. I think in years to come the Iraq war will not be something that is looked upon as a great US led initiative (spelling?). |
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| carlnicholson... |
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carlnicholson...
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Posted: 06:58 - 14 Mar 2006  Post subject: |
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IMO, it's not that the war is illegal, after all, Saddam Hussein really needed to be taken out of power, more how the coalition went about it.
I was in the RAF at the start of it all and prepared Tornado aircraft for the conflict. I didn't however go to the Gulf.
The war was a neccessity, however, the underhand, viscious and down right wrong tactics used my the coalition were not. That is the downfall of the whole concept.
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| craigie b |
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craigie b
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| killa |
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killa
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Posted: 12:14 - 14 Mar 2006  Post subject: |
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This war has confused the hell out me TBH, I’ve learnt a lot about it including the companies and governments involved. My company Halliburton, the US and our own leaders in the UK, learning as much as I can about the involvement of each party and the others, overseas.
There is so much intertwined with the original ideas here and each idea has sprung from another idea possibly made over decades ago, combine this with greed, politics and wealth and sure enough you get a lot of smoke screen put up by the media and governments.
I’ve believed one thing for one week, but then I’ll see some carefully edited footage of something and then think otherwise, I’ve pretty much given up now, I’m tired of people slating the UK and US and I’m tired of hearing about things beyond my control, especially when the people moaning are bin men, colleagues and forum members.
One things for sure, you certainly don’t know enough to have any kind of strong argument to pull out of Iraq so why blab on like John Lennon and shut up and get back to work. Also, why is it the public deem this sort of thing as bad, I see it as these people are looking out for our futures, building up our countries strength and increasing development?
Power hungry, filthy rich we are not, on a smaller scale maybe so at their scale it is only natural.
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| byke95 |
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byke95
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| killa |
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killa
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| Posted: 16:13 - 14 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| craigie b wrote: | What you are saying is, in effect, be dumb, don't question stuff and be a mong. Well done for becoming instituted |
Dumb in comparison to what Craigie?
This is my point, for example your best mate might say “Hey that Bush guys is dumb”, he could then come out with 5-10 valid points why all this war is bad and you’ll be happy with it.
Go around the playground shouting it, put in your local news paper, post it on a forum, all I’m saying is, your word means shi* at the end of the day.
Some people have argued about the religion of the two sides, some have debated the oil, some debated simply the actions of the people. What it all comes down to is you and I don’t know the half of it, despite how much access we have to information on the subject, and that’s why I don’t bother.
I’m not saying ‘you can’t think for yourselves, stop saying crap like ‘The US are bad and we shouldn’t fight’ and ‘Blairs dumb….’
So, a well to do SAS man sells his story to the media, much better then fighting IMO and he says he doesn’t like the attitude of the US troops, only two ways it can go then I suppose…...
1, The US and the UK government listen to Mr Ben and then all our troops have a sing song and lay down the guns.
2, No one bats an eye lid, a bit of ruckus happens in the commons and Mr Ben goes home and buys a boat.
| craigie b wrote: | Did you even bother to read the link attached before you came to that conclusion BTW? I can't think of a more credible witness than a member of the SAS to condemn the war, so forgive me for forming an opinion based on someone who has actually been on the ground and seen what is happening. |
One of my school buddies quit the army after serving awhile in Iraq he didn’t like the way he was treated, not the shouting, not the hard work but the supplies they needed but didn’t have. This along with the sleepless nights the noise and the Iraqi’s was enough for him to resign. He thinks Americans are ‘dumb’ as you say, he knows things some people don’t about the war but still quite ill-informed his comment like mine and yours are VERY generalised.
He hates Iraq’s because he has fought against them and heard about stories of their behaviour in the field, but he knows it is war and shi* like that happens.
| craigie b wrote: | Looking out for our futures?  Look what happens when people follow blindly...Maybe if the German population had questioned their fuhrer a bit better they might have understood the consequences of their actions. As it stood, they put unquestionable trust in him and became the scourge of Europe (I know that’s way over simplifying, but come on your the one slating people for daring to think for themselves). |
Hmm, Hitler, didn’t really do as Blair has done did he, but you’ve got to give him 10/10 for effort.
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craigie b
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| Posted: 17:32 - 14 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | What it all comes down to is you and I don’t know the half of it, despite how much access we have to information on the subject, and that’s why I don’t bother. |
Well good for you. The fact you want to bury your head in the sand and not discuss current affairs in the current affairs section of a forum voids your entire discussion.
So you suffer from apathy, good for you.
| Quote: | So, a well to do SAS man sells his story to the media, much better then fighting IMO and he says he doesn’t like the attitude of the US troops, only two ways it can go then I suppose…...
1, The US and the UK government listen to Mr Ben and then all our troops have a sing song and lay down the guns.
2, No one bats an eye lid, a bit of ruckus happens in the commons and Mr Ben goes home and buys a boat. |
He actually states the US soldiers have been carrying out night time raids and torturing civilians. Something which has been well documented in previous months. The reason I found this interesting is becasue I find him credible as a witness so his story backs up a lot of other claims that have previously came out from Iraq about how we have fought the war. You find little or nothing in that then why even f*cking post about it?
| Quote: | he knows things some people don’t about the war but still quite ill-informed his comment like mine and yours are VERY generalised. |
I think an SAS mans knowledge of whats going on is going to be slightly more indepth than a hats  statement. More over, can you point out my generalised statements?
| Quote: | Hmm, Hitler, didn’t really do as Blair has done did he, but you’ve got to give him 10/10 for effort. |
My comparission was more to do with what can happen when everybody ignores whats going on becasue they feel it is out of their control. |
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| Adam_P |
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Adam_P
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| Posted: 00:04 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Killa you truly are showing a huge amount of naivety about things with some of what you've posted.
You never cease to amaze me.
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killa
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| Posted: 10:34 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| craigie b wrote: | Well good for you. The fact you want to bury your head in the sand and not discuss current affairs in the current affairs section of a forum voids your entire discussion. |
I am discussing, more so than yourself thank you and trying to come across with some points you haven’t taken in yet. Your answers are brief and have no weight to them, just merely telling me I should give a shi* about this war doesn’t make you right does it.
You’ve read that story in the link about one SAS man with a grudge against US soldiers in war carrying out operations not in the war hand book, and you ask….
| craigie b wrote: | why was the war a necessity? |
This is what I was trying to explain to you, maybe you know one or two things about why the US went to war and why we joined them, who caused 9/11, who wants oil and who’s gaining from this in the long term.
I’m not burying my head in the sand Cragie, I know enough to stop asking pointless questions like this, what do you hope to achieve?
You, me, that SAS bloke are all but pond life my friend, normal everyday people in war situations do crazy things and until you understand this on the political, global scale you’re going to be going around in circles.
| craigie b wrote: | He actually states the US soldiers have been carrying out night time raids and torturing civilians. Something which has been well documented in previous months. The reason I found this interesting is because I find him credible as a witness so his story backs up a lot of other claims that have previously came out from Iraq about how we have fought the war. You find little or nothing in that then why even f*cking post about it? |
Ok, still not getting anywhere….
Take a look back in war history, WW1+2, Vietnam, see what happens when some grunt moans about fellow soldiers raping girls or gunning down civi’s.
| craigie b wrote: | My comparison was more to do with what can happen when everybody ignores what’s going on because they feel it is out of their control. |
Sadly I do feel it’s out of my control, you know, war, the UK’s economy, the millions of people involved, TBH if it was controllable by myself I’d stop the war straight away because I think its a waste of money.
That’s my opinion.
Come on Craig, what would you do if you could make a difference?
| Adam_P wrote: | Killa you truly are showing a huge amount of naivety about things with some of what you've posted. |
Adam, to a certain extent so are you my friend, do you know the kind of work you’d have to put in to fully understand the war? I don’t, you don’t, so what’s your point?
Do you think Iraq is going to be saved now that soldier Ben has spoken?
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craigie b
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| Posted: 11:01 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | You’ve read that story in the link about one SAS man with a grudge against US soldiers in war carrying out operations not in the war hand book, and you ask….
craigie b wrote:
why was the war a necessity?
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That was directed at carlnicholsony2k because I was interested to hear his point of view, given he'd been involved, albeit in a small manner in the war effort. Whats your problem with this?
| Quote: | what do you hope to achieve? |
Personal enlightenment...gain some knowledge. Gain a better understanding of how people manipulate others for personal gain on a massive scale. Gain an appreciation of how others view the world and its events. The list is extensive. The more I know the more I can make educated assumptions and judgements as I go through life. The fact you have given up trying to understand what makes the larger picture tick is of no concern to me, because in effect thats what you are doing. You are giving up and accepting that things happen that you cannot comprehend because you can;t be arsed trying to understand.
| Quote: | Ok, still not getting anywhere….
Take a look back in war history, WW1+2, Vietnam, see what happens when some grunt moans about fellow soldiers raping girls or gunning down civi’s. |
Dig a bit deeper and you would see that the SAS man quitting is alread y having legal repecussions on the military system as it is being used in court to support other soldiers who refuse to fight an illegal war. This could set a prescedent which would have a knock on effect a long way of in the future. Yes that is speculation on my behalf but its better than your desperate, apathy ridden ramblings about how helpless we all are.
| Quote: | Come on Craig, what would you do if you could make a difference? |
Vote for someone else...did you forget we live in a democracy? |
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Adam_P
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| Posted: 12:39 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| killa wrote: | Adam, to a certain extent so are you my friend, do you know the kind of work you’d have to put in to fully understand the war? I don’t, you don’t, so what’s your point?
Do you think Iraq is going to be saved now that soldier Ben has spoken? |
No, I don't think its going to be saved just because of this, but it might make people blinded by the current media viewpoint that things aren't going that well over there and that we're not doign the stand up sterling job eveyone thinks we are.
I worked for the MOD for just over a year before and during the start of the war. I know enough (believe me!) and read enough (from both sides) and use my eyes well enough to see that the situation the coalition troops are in now is past saving.
This war has turned (rapidly) into another Vietnam for the US, which we're a part of. And all for what? Democracy? Toppling an evil dictator? Hussein is on trial and the first elections have been held. What else is there left to do? When the war (supposedly) ended just a few months after it started (At least, I think it did, I saw the President of the USA tell us all on TV that it was) and soldiers are dying more frequently than before, surely its past a state where anything constructive can come of it?
Maybe I'm wrong, but there appears to be so many more negatives coming out of this situation than positives. And how much longer does it have to carry on? And what now IS the point to us being there?
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killa
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| Posted: 13:33 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| craigie b wrote: | Personal enlightenment...gain some knowledge. Gain a better understanding of how people manipulate others for personal gain on a massive scale. Gain an appreciation of how others view the world and its events. The list is extensive. The more I know the more I can make educated assumptions and judgements as I go through life. The fact you have given up trying to understand what makes the larger picture tick is of no concern to me, because in effect that’s what you are doing. You are giving up and accepting that things happen that you cannot comprehend because you can’t be arsed trying to understand. |
That’s very sweet, reminds me of what some people in skool used to say.
A lot of people have and will manipulate you in your short life, the scale of which is irrelevant, it just happens, you can learn and prepare as much as you like but you won’t make a difference to these world politics by doing so.
I’ve not stopped learning about the ‘massive’ scale you talk of, I know what your saying but I simply don’t think like you, I don’t trust anyone except family, and even then I have doubts.
Take action if you want to be a better person will you, innocent people are dying out there Craigie, go and fight.
Don’t want to fight?
Then do as the rest of us, sit back and enjoy the fireworks because your cross in the box means shi*.
| craigie b wrote: | Dig a bit deeper and you would see that the SAS man quitting is already y having legal repercussions on the military system as it is being used in court to support other soldiers who refuse to fight an illegal war. This could set a precedent which would have a knock on effect a long way of in the future. Yes that is speculation on my behalf but its better than you’re desperate, apathy ridden ramblings about how helpless we all are. |
Great, he’s learnt the hard way that war can be pretty random and harsh, they say everyman counts, so obviously this doesn’t help our efforts.
Helpless in terms of the war yes, that is all.
| craigie b wrote: | Vote for someone else...did you forget we live in a democracy? |
Aaaww 
| Adam_P wrote: | No, I don't think it’s going to be saved just because of this, but it might make people blinded by the current media viewpoint that things aren't going that well over there and that we're not doign the stand up sterling job eveyone thinks we are.
I worked for the MOD for just over a year before and during the start of the war. I know enough (believe me!)
Maybe I'm wrong, but there appears to be so many more negatives coming out of this situation than positives. And how much longer does it have to carry on? And what now IS the point to us being there? |
Unless I see it for myself I’m never shocked by news, pictures and videos of war, if I watched news continuously I would be brainwashed into thinking something I shouldn’t it is then not an opinion of your own.
I’ve made my decision to stop talking shi* when it comes to war, you say you know enough, enough what? Bad things about war?
So you’ve heard a lot of bad things from both sides, I seriously have no idea what that entitles you to, just another opinion to something you can’t change.
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craigie b
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| Posted: 13:48 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Take action if you want to be a better person will you, innocent people are dying out there Craigie, go and fight.
Don’t want to fight? |
Just jacked from the para regiment due to a back injury but intend to try again in 6 months time once the injury heals...whats your point?
| Quote: | A lot of people have and will manipulate you in your short life, the scale of which is irrelevant, it just happens, you can learn and prepare as much as you like but you won’t make a difference to these world politics by doing so. |
You think thats true? You think you have no ability in your own life to make sure your own descisions are just that, your own descisions? Your damning yourself to a life of ignorance because you can't be bothered or are simply too stupid. 
| Quote: | Great, he’s learnt the hard way that war can be pretty random and harsh, they say everyman counts, so obviously this doesn’t help our efforts.
Helpless in terms of the war yes, that is all. |
SAS men know war is harsh...anyone who has endured the selection process and seen action (never mind being in the para's) is someone who knows about the realities of war. Your neglecting this fact to backup a sorry lame ass opinion of 'I don't care'
By the way, no civvies were tortured or harmed in the flaklands. We did a sterling job in the balklands and the first Iraq war was not bogged down by claims of torture or mistreatment of civvies
. So your arguement about what war is like might have been relevant thirty years ago, but we are suppossed to have a 'professional army' as america is. The fact the opposite is being touted by a soldier of the highest standards, in my opinion, proves that recent months media coverage of torture scandals are in fact true.
| Quote: | I’ve made my decision to stop talking shi* when it comes to war, you say you know enough, enough what? Bad things about war?
So you’ve heard a lot of bad things from both sides, I seriously have no idea what that entitles you to, just another opinion to something you can’t change. |
OMG, so your saying people have no right to an opinion? Because their not in the front line? Does that mean tony blair doesn't have an opinion? He isn't ex millitary so what the f*ck rioght does he have? Or is that an exception to your rules becausse Tony Blair has worked himself to the top of the pile? WTF? |
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killa
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| Posted: 15:34 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Soz for the late reply, I was in a meeting….
| craigie b wrote: | Just jacked from the para regiment due to a back injury but intend to try again in 6 months time once the injury heals...what’s your point? |
You’re not happy with misconduct while in battle are you…
And you might end up fighting along side these people if your back gets better?
What’s your point then?
| Killa wrote: | A lot of people have and will manipulate you in your short life, the scale of which is irrelevant, it just happens, you can learn and prepare as much as you like but you won’t make a difference to these world politics by doing so. |
| craigie b wrote: | You think that’s true? You think you have no ability in your own life to make sure your own decisions are just that, your own decisions? Your damning yourself to a life of ignorance because you can't be bothered or are simply too stupid. |
If you’re saying I’m wrong that you haven’t been manipulated in your life by someone, they must have been pretty good.
I’m not ignorant, I’m not stupid why the name calling?
I guess what I’m asking is Craig, what are you going to do that is so great, and what am I not doing because I’m too stupid?
| craigie b wrote: | SAS men know war is harsh...anyone who has endured the selection process and seen action (never mind being in the para's) is someone who knows about the realities of war. You’re neglecting this fact to backup a sorry lame ass opinion of 'I don't care' |
Someone who has gone through a selection process does not know the realities of war Craig, as Mr Ben found out.
He may very well have been in service for some years but you’d be stupid to think he’s seen everything.
| craigie b wrote: | By the way, no civvies were tortured or harmed in the flaklands. We did a sterling job in the balklands and the first Iraq war was not bogged down by claims of torture or mistreatment of soldiers. |
Maybe times have changed since those wars, and also the motives for going into Iraq are true, we aren’t going there to make peace, the soldiers as you say know more than a civi, so they must be doing it for a reason.
The Falklands war was a bit different to this war as you know as well, fighting very different people in very different situations for different cause. Bad things occurred during the Falklands, our leaders were caught out on a few things, but nothing much came of it in the end.
| Killa wrote: | I’ve made my decision to stop talking shi* when it comes to war, you say you know enough, enough what? Bad things about war?
So you’ve heard a lot of bad things from both sides, I seriously have no idea what that entitles you to, just another opinion to something you can’t change. |
| craigie b wrote: | OMG, so you’re saying people have no right to an opinion? Because their not in the front line? Does that mean Tony Blair doesn't have an opinion? He isn't ex military so what the f*ck right does he have? Or is that an exception to your rules because Tony Blair has worked himself to the top of the pile? |
I didn’t say that in the above quote, so don’t make shi* up. I’ve already explained to you what the powerful people think of me and you.
Scum on the front line and robots in line at the post office mean shit, this SAS bloke has a bit of a box to stand on but some one will cut him down to size sooner or later.
Please tell me if I am wrong about that, and if I am, what is this guy going to achieve by pointing the finger?
What I’m saying Craig is your opinion doesn’t count for much, but Tony’s does. I don’t care how he got there, shi* I don’t like him FFS, BUT he runs the fucking country Craig which is just one of the reasons I’m not backing any of this for Tony, jumping out of a plane with a cap gun and a bit of cloth strapped to my back is just not my thing.
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craigie b
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| Posted: 16:19 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | You’re not happy with misconduct while in battle are you… |
Now your twisting words to meet your non point. Nobody said anything about misconduct in battle. What the article and I was talking about is the conduct of an occupying force against the native civilian population. At no point in this has there been mention misconduct during combat. Ultimately during combat nearly anything goes, including illegal weapons by us. But people have to do what they have to do when fighting. thats different from torturing civilians and conducting night time raids on innocent civilians.
| Quote: | I’m not ignorant, I’m not stupid why the name calling? |
Your not making a good case for this, are you?
| Quote: | I guess what I’m asking is Craig, what are you going to do that is so great, and what am I not doing because I’m too stupid? |
Who knows what I'll do but I imagine you'll just be content monging it because you feel your opinion isn't worth shit.
| Quote: | Someone who has gone through a selection process does not know the realities of war Craig, as Mr Ben found out.
He may very well have been in service for some years but you’d be stupid to think he’s seen everything. |
[url]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/12/nsas112.xml [/url]
| Quote: | He had already served in Northern Ireland, Macedonia and Afghanistan as a member of the Parachute Regiment, and his sharp mind, natural fitness and ability to cope with the stress of military operations had singled him out as ideal special forces material. |
| Quote: | The Falklands war was a bit different to this war as you know as well, fighting very different people in very different situations for different cause. |
How is the treatment of civvies any different?
| Quote: | what is this guy going to achieve by pointing the finger? |
For starters it might help encourage people to vote in a different leader. The democratic machine can be changed by people actually giving a fuck. Just becuase you want to sit on the fence and mock others who dare voice an opinion doesn't mean to say everyone is helpless. This guy already has achieved something by having his cvase used in court to defend other soldiers who don't want to go back to Iraq....what ever you think, this guy has potential to really rock the boat.
| Quote: | What I’m saying Craig is your opinion doesn’t count for much |
Thats a rather sweeping statment don't you think? I'm sure Tony Blairss opinion didn't when he was twenty odd but I doubt very much he stopped having opinions because a twat felt his opinion was insignificant or more to the point, insignificant becasue the aforementioned twat couldn't be arsed having an opinion either. |
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killa
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| Posted: 16:55 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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| craigie b wrote: | Now you’re twisting words to meet your non point. Nobody said anything about misconduct in battle. What the article and I was talking about is the conduct of an occupying force against the native civilian population. |
Doesn’t this just prove the point that ‘You’ll find dick heads everywhere’ then? And also confirming the fact that this is an never ending battle to rid the world of idiots.
In which case this couldn’t this have been dealt with within the regiment or whatever it is, not by selling the story to papers.
| craigie b wrote: | Who knows what I'll do, but I imagine you'll just be content monging it because you feel your opinion isn't worth shit. |
No one knows Craig, except you, that’s why I asked you.
In the end you’ll have made as much difference to all this as me to this subject, fuck all.
| craigie b wrote: | A link about brave Ben |
I’ve read a similar story somewhere from a yank about his own men, it wasn’t all good TBH but then it wasn’t all bad, they did some operations and seriously did a good job and on others the odd farmer was capped for being ‘A dirty towel head’.
People brand the entire US military trigger happy when it’s obvious some of the soldiers shouldn’t have got past the selection process in the first place. Senior officers allow shi* like this to happen sometimes….. and so we end up at the beginning again Craig, the people who really matter pull the strings and some mug with a bit of war history can only halt these people from fulfilling their needs.
| craigie b wrote: | He had already served in Northern Ireland, Macedonia and Afghanistan as a member of the Parachute Regiment, and his sharp mind, natural fitness and ability to cope with the stress of military operations had singled him out as ideal special forces material. |
Patrolling a few areas in Ireland and trying to keeping peace in other areas has nothing to do with coping with seeing US troops touching up young Iraqi girls and torturing disabled guys with bayonets, it’s happened in N’ham and it happened again before and after that war, everyone who’s in the forces should know this before hand.
And then people act surprised when it happens in front of them. 
| craigie b wrote: | How is the treatment of civvies any different? |
Don’t ask me, ask someone serving over there, I have, and he was British, what he said you wouldn’t like.
| Killa wrote: | What is this guy going to achieve by pointing the finger? |
| craigie b wrote: | For starters it might help encourage people to vote in a different leader. The democratic machine can be changed by people actually giving a fuck. Just because you want to sit on the fence and mock others who dare voice an opinion doesn't mean to say everyone is helpless. This guy already has achieved something by having his case used in court to defend other soldiers who don't want to go back to Iraq....what ever you think, this guy has potential to really rock the boat. |
First off, how old are you?
Secondly at this age list the things you have already done in an attempt to voice your opinion to Mr.Blair.
Craig, I voted for a different leader in the last election, it was the only time I have voted because I thought to myself ‘Well I don’t really like Blair, the war is bad, and I smoke green’…., it was a pitiful attempt though, because I was backing who I wanted in power not what everyone else wants.
If and when someone else takes over Britain as your leader it would take more than a few weeks to sort out the mess we are in, the mess we are in has nothing to do with normal Norman not going to No.10 with boards saying “War is bad” bush is dumb” etc.
| Killa wrote: | What I’m saying Craig is your opinion doesn’t count for much |
| craigie b wrote: | That’s a rather sweeping statement don't you think? I'm sure Tony Blair’s opinion didn't when he was twenty odd but I doubt very much he stopped having opinions because a twat felt his opinion was insignificant or more to the point, insignificant because the aforementioned twat couldn't be arsed having an opinion either. |
Good for you Craig, thinking of running for an important position? Hmmm, thought not, you’d have to be reborn with plumbs in your mouth and your dad needs to be fat, red faced, cigar smoking, pie eating cun*.
Blair is struggling, not for the lack of trying though.
I do know that being PM has more to do with the wars going on, he has made life better for at least 3 people I can name and that really counts to me, what some thug in the army does to some farmer in Iraq is not my concern. Sounds harsh but I have thought in my time of the ways I could make a difference, then I got a clue.
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killa
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| Posted: 17:20 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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Why is the information from this bloke the truth 100% and what I’ve seen, heard and read isn’t?
And no I didn’t read it in the sun either.
I also know a lad who quit the army who told me about things he'd seen and heard, i have no reason for believing Ben except your opinion.
And don’t miss out chunks of my post, you seem to know everything about the war and how I can change things so fucking answers them at least.
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| Posted: 17:39 - 15 Mar 2006 Post subject: |
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If you ever have any experience of the law you'll find it lends a lot of weight on the credibility of a witness. For example a ex drug dealing bin man isn't a particulary good witness.
You've been discrediting everything the outset, assuming that everyone is as you assume they are..i.e. stating he can't hack it.....he's sold out, he hasn't seen war.
As I pointed out, he hadn't sold his story, he had seen action and I pointed out that the areas he operated in were not the stroll in the park you make it out to be.
Now, the guy is ex SAS which makes rates him in the top 1% of the population in terms of dedication and professionalism. If he says something bad has happened, his credentials make him a reliable eye witness and as such I believe what he says over some politician who has blatanly obvious 'other interests'. That, combined with aspects such as him not accepting money for his story, mnake me think he is credible in his statement.
And why don't you enlighten us with what you've seen and heard rather than making sweeping statements with nothing to back them up? And most British troops are based in Basra so have very little contact with US soldiers meaning its unlikely your mate had direct experience of US soldiers torturing and killing innocent civilians.
| Quote: | I do know that being PM has more to do with the wars going on, he has made life better for at least 3 people I can name and that really counts to me, what some thug in the army does to some farmer in Iraq is not my concern. Sounds harsh but I have thought in my time of the ways I could make a difference, then I got a clue |
Yeah and there is fifty odd families in london missing relatives because of terrorist bombers. Our actions have inflamed the muslim world and makes us a direct target for retaliation on our own soil. If our actions leads to some rag head killing 2 -3 thousand people in this country then I am concerned about our foreign policies more than I am about the three people who've been helped by Blair.
Last edited by craigie b on 18:43 - 15 Mar 2006; edited 1 time in total |
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The last post was made 18 years, 59 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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