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Urgent Action needed re 3rd EC Driving Licence Directive

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Sadie
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 24 Mar 2006    Post subject: Urgent Action needed re 3rd EC Driving Licence Directive Reply with quote

The BMF needs your help today. We need you to e-mail your MP as a matter of urgency.

Early this month, there were rumours that the Austrian Presidency of the European Union was cooking up a scheme with Germany to fast track agreement of a Common Position on the Third EC Driving Licence Directive. Austria and Germany have disagreed with some of the proposals, particularly those relating to the life of driving licences and their renewal but showed no interest in the motorcycling proposals. Germany even praised them at the last Council of Ministers meeting in December. Nevertheless, they opposed agreement of a Common Position at the time. The proposal that they were considering in early March, as one of several options was that there should be a lengthy period before implementation of the Directive effectively sparing those who agreed to it any embarrassment when it was put in place since they would be unlikely to still be in office.

We learned only this week that Austria and Germany intend to put the Third EC Driving Licence Directive in its current form but with a lengthy implementation date on the agenda of Council of Ministers on Monday 27th March with a view to agreeing a Common Position. They have designated it an ‘A’ topic i.e. one to be voted on without discussion. Throughout the UK Presidency and during the current Austrian Presidency, there has been a marked reluctance to open the text of the draft Directive to discuss even the issues that the Council members regard as sticking points let alone the motorcycling proposals. Hence there is little or no chance of the Council considering the European motorcycling community’s amendments to moderate the motorcycling proposals or the UK motorcycling community’s more radical approach of deleting them entirely to be revisited at a later time. BMF representatives brought this to the attention of Transport Minister Stephen Ladyman at a meeting on Wednesday but he claims that he has been unable to find support from other national governments at Council of Ministers meetings and that even the industry with the exception of Honda UK have made few representations. Even the Italians and Germans with indigenous motorcycle industries have shown no interest. A ‘non-paper’ submitted by the UK Government on the motorcycling proposals was rejected by all other parties. Dr Ladyman has agreed to register his disapproval of the proposal at the Council but indicated that he will be abstaining from the vote rather than voting against the proposals.

This has a number of implications. This action is contrary to the indications given by the Austrian Presidency and the UK Government where it appeared that with so many differences, the Third EC Driving Licence Directive would be allowed to run out of time and be withdrawn for redrafting. The reluctance by the Council to debate it is also a concern with their justification being that they are reluctant to lose the points on which they are agreed. There is the question that if the time for implementation has been changed, then the text of the draft Directive has been amended and it should be subject to a debate. This all comes across as fundamentally undemocratic with governments who are supposed to represent the interests of their citizens failing to make transparent decisions. The agreement of a Common Position completes the First Reading and allows the draft Directive to proceed to the Second Reading initially in the European Parliament. With the ongoing reluctance to discuss the text, the Rapporteur and shadow rapporteurs want a formal Second Reading in which the draft Directive in its current form will merely be rubber-stamped. So, the next stage will be to demand a full Second Reading and that the motorcycling elements are, at least considered, if not deleted. In the interim, we should contact our MPs to whom Stephen Ladyman is answerable NOW to call for him to adopt a more robust position. Please send an e-mail to your MP based upon the following:




To: ----------------------------, MP
From: ----------------------------
Address: ----------------------------
----------------------------
----------------------------
Dear ------------------------------,

It has just come to my notice that the draft Third EC Driving Licence Directive is to be subject to undemocratic procedures at the Council of Ministers meeting on Monday 27th March. The Austrian Presidency of the European Union proposes to extend the period for its implementation and vote on a Common Position without discussion. The UK motorcycling community has consistently expressed concerns about the motorcycling proposals in the draft Directive which will have a devastating effect on the use of motorcycles and their benefits in addressing congestion and social exclusion by restricting access to them yet failing to improve road safety. We believe that there should at least be full discussion of the motorcycling issues at the Council of Ministers meeting and preferably their deletion from the draft Directive so that meaningful proposals taking the latest research can be drafted.

At a recent meeting with representatives from the British Motorcyclists Federation, Minister for Transport, Dr Stephen Ladyman claimed that he had received no support from other EU member states with regard to the motorcycling measures in the Third EC Driving Licence Directive and so, at Monday’s Council of Ministers proposed to register the concerns of the UK motorcycling community but to abstain rather than voting against agreement of a Common Position.

There is a serious danger that if the Council agrees a Common Position without discussion, then the European Parliament will also be reluctant to fully debate the text of the draft Directive. The inevitable outcome of this will be the implementation of measures damaging to the future of motorcycling which have not been subject to transparent and democratic procedures. Please use your influence with the Minister to ask him to more diligently seek the support of potential allies and to conduct a more robust defence, not only of UK motorcyclists’ interests but the principles of democracy in the European Union.

Yours sincerely,


---------------------------


Cheers, guys! Have a drink on me!
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Barry_M2
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 24 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you just posted this on other sites under the name 'Mad Liz'?
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veeeffarr
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PostPosted: 16:45 - 24 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

What affect is this going to have on us?
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Nath
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 24 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the link above:
Quote:
There will be three categories of motorcycles A1 - light motorcycle of up to 125cc/11kW, A2 - up to 35 kW and A - unlimited.

A well-meaning but misguided MEP Matthieu Grosch has deemed that there will be a rigid two year period for minimum ages of access between each category. Most countries will allow access to A1 from 16 but in the UK it
will continue to be 17.

This will mean that through Progressive Access, A2 won't be accessible until 19, and A until aged 21! Direct access to A, currently at age 21, will be increased to 24.


Does sound a bit of a bummer really. Just makes it more difficult and confusing for young'uns to get into motorcycling. Doesn't seem fair to penalise people so much based on their age, especially when the bike market isn't catered to providing for these different license categories.
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Sadie
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PostPosted: 18:35 - 24 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barry_MC21 wrote:
Have you just posted this on other sites under the name 'Mad Liz'?


Yes, I'm Mad Liz everywhere except here.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 24 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sent.

I'm curious, insurance sites often ask whether punters are a member of BMF or MAG etc. Aside from their hard work campaigning, does membership give you guys insurance benefits too?
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Sadie
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 25 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mister James wrote:
Sent.

I'm curious, insurance sites often ask whether punters are a member of BMF or MAG etc. Aside from their hard work campaigning, does membership give you guys insurance benefits too?


Yes. BMF is particularly associated with Bennetts and MAG with E-Bike insurance.

However, most of the others will also offer a discount if you are a member, because it indicates to them that you take your biking seriously which (in their eyes) makes you slightly less of a risk.

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Walloper
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 25 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shouldn't we be telling the manufactures to get up off their arses too?
What's their addy? Evil or Very Mad

I sent the letter to my MP.

So it will be sorted Laughing
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Jonwig
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PostPosted: 13:14 - 27 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Restrictions like this tend to fly in the face of modern liberal attitudes! Imagine if the new directive said you have to ride a restricted bike if you were over 55 years old, they'd be a major outcry over ageism! Just because your old doesn't mean your incapable of controlling a powerful bike - neither does being young mean you can't control it!
Direct access is a cop out why is a 21 (to be 24) year old with limited experience less likely to crash than a 20 year old with 3 years of riding bikes every day behind him? Ok younger people are statistically more likely to be stupid but men are more stupid when driving (statistically) than women and people who work in the media more stupid than the rest of us so why don't different direct access conditions apply to them?

If we have to have graduated licences the n why not on cars I'm more concerned when I'm on the road about a 17 year old in a GTI than a 17 year old on a restricted 400!
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judderman3000
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 27 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

sent letter to mp this morning may have been to late though, she doesnt do anything does our area mp anyway
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carlnicholson...
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 27 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emailed 2 minutes ago.

Lets see what happens!

I think 24 to do DAS is a bit extreme. Im 22 and feel the training I got for my test and the experience after has made me a safe rider. The weak link in my opinion is being set loose after a CBT.

Fucking Europe. Rolling Eyes
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MikeH
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 27 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't see the problem myself, there again I'm an old fart who went straight through DAS Mr. Green Wink

Seriously, with the cost of taking the test, insurance etc big bikes are out of the reach of a lot of youngsters anyway so I don't see the need for anymore legislation unless someone can show some decent stats related to reduction of accidents. I must admit I was a complete fruitcake until I got to my mid 20's, I managed to write off several motors showing off to my mates........Testosterone does some strange shit to a guys brain Very Happy

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400bandit
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 27 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

As carlnicholsony2k said, the training I got on my A2 test and training has made me such a safer rider despite going from 50cc to 400cc. It's so silly, they are just trying to prevent people riding bikes (though a few more lives will be saved).
One thing that may be a good idea would to make CBT's a little more involved. Looking back, I don't think that I was ready to hit the road after mine Shocked
So glad I didn't hang around doing my A2 test Very Happy Thumbs Up
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MRX Steve
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked When are they planning on bringing this in? (sorry if it says but im too tired to read the whole thing) I want to do my A2 later this year once im 17, i dont want 125 or to wait untill im 19!
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Sadie
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately, peeps, despite our best efforts, this has be passed.

See here.

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Black Knight
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PostPosted: 08:55 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadie wrote:
Unfortunately, peeps, despite our best efforts, this has be passed.

See here.

Thumbs Down


What utter shite Thumbs Down

When do these come into effect Sadie? Effective now or do they have to implement the changes within UK organisations?

Might be worth pushing the mrs to do her test asap. Going to be a lot more hassle, and cost if she does it when these silly rulings come in.
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Sadie
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PostPosted: 09:54 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't panic, Black Knight - these things usually take a bit of time (couple of years at least) to be implemented.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 11:26 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadie wrote:
Don't panic, Black Knight - these things usually take a bit of time (couple of years at least) to be implemented.


Any chance of other ways of stopping it, such as an appeal about undemocratic methods?

All the best

Keith
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veeeffarr
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

EUROPA wrote:
The vehicle definition of the medium-powered category A2 has been widened and thus a wider range of bikes are available for these riders; the category thus becomes a real main category in opposition of category A limited today;


Interesting...
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MRX Steve
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evil or Very Mad B*stards ! This better not come into effect this year. Have you noticed that moped riders are now going to have to take a theory test too, well i guess its good if it imporves road safety. How can changing the age for direct access improvce road safety from being moved from 21 to 24? Its not like this is going to make the rider any better than they would have been a few years earlyer. I wonder if people will still be allowed to ride 125s on a CBT?
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Sadie
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:
Sadie wrote:
Don't panic, Black Knight - these things usually take a bit of time (couple of years at least) to be implemented.


Any chance of other ways of stopping it, such as an appeal about undemocratic methods?

All the best

Keith


The decision by the Council of Ministers on 27th March to agree a Common Position on the Third EC Driving Licence Directive without discussion of the text or any changes to the motorcycling proposals will require a rethink of how the campaign should proceed.

It may be necessary to target the European Parliament and, specifically, UK MEPs rather than the UK Government.

It may also be necessary to question the procedures used by the European Union since there may have been sharp practice. A theme of a lack of democracy in the EU and treating citizens with contempt could also be considered.
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Mister James
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Daily Telegraph wrote:

EU tightens age rules for motorcycle riders
By David Millward, Transport Correspondent
(Filed: 28/03/2006)

British motorcycle riders face new curbs under plans to harmonise driving licences across the European Union.

The new rules, which will come into force in 2012, are intended to counter the rising number of motorcycle accidents.

Under the arrangements teenagers will still be able to ride a 50cc moped from the age of 16 but will have to wait until they are 19 if they wish to use a machine of more than 125cc. Currently 17- and 18-year-olds may do so provided they have passed a motorcycle test and the machine has a maximum engine performance of no more than 33bhp.

At the other end of the scale, the system allowing 21-year-olds to ride any motor-cycle provided that they have passed their test will be scrapped. The minimum age will rise to 24, unless they have gained at least two years' experience on larger machines of up to 47 bhp.



We've got a while yet, to squeeze in a few more DAS's, or challenge it on legal grounds.
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veeeffarr
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does that mean the A2 restriction is going to be upped to 47BHP?
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadie wrote:
It may be necessary to target the European Parliament and, specifically, UK MEPs rather than the UK Government.


I was wondering about some kind of European Court campaign. Not sure whether such a course would be possible.

All the best

Keith
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MRX Steve
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 28 Mar 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toby R wrote:
Does that mean the A2 restriction is going to be upped to 47BHP?

i guess so, because 35 kW = 46.6bhp. Hardly seems worth having any restriction at all when its going to be that high.
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