?150 Graphics Card (Few More Questions, Scroll To Bottom)

[WildGoose]

the best availible for that money?

and if anyone could explain the why and where for, in a similar way to processors 101, then i would be eternally grateful

ATI v nVidia, and why?

all comments appreciated
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[G]

www.tomshardware.com, again

[Psychofly]

Depends what type of card ?
AGP or PCI-E

AGP is the old standard which runs faster than the usual PCI cards that most other things plug into. AGP (Accelerated Graphics Port I think) was developed because the speed the motherboard could talk to the graphics card via a PCI socket was slower than the card was essentially running so AGP meant that the motherboard could talk to the card faster therefore speeding things up and allowing the card to work as fast as was needed.
PCI-E (PCI Express) is a similar idea really - a faster way of interacting with the graphics card and it allows cards to run in an SLI (Serial (?) Line Interface) combo. This basically means that 2 cards are used and the work shared between the 2 so obviously you get better performance. This used to be possible with the old PCI Voodoo graphics cards but quickly disappeared.
As far as ATI vs NVIDIA is concerned you'll hear good arguements on both sides and depending on when you ask the question the answer will change. In reality there's really not much in it (particularly at entry and mid-level cards). NVIDIA can lead for a bit until ATI bring out a new card then ATI lead until NVIDIA bring out a new card... etc. etc. etc.
I would honestly say it's down to personal preference. I personally prefer NVIDIA but I know a lot of people that prefer ATI. A major part of why I stick to NVIDIA is because I know what I'm buying and have some idea of where each model of NVIDIA lies in the overall NVIDIA catalogue. With ATI I don't know what models are good and what are bad and can't really be bothered learning whether a card is really good and a good price for the performance or if it's just an overpriced crap card. I also don't like the ATI logo - it's not as nice as NVIDIAs ;P
As for a specific card for £150 I will point you to the NVIDIA camp and I reckon you could get a very good 6800GS or 6800GT PCI-E or AGP for that money. If you spend a little more maybe a 7800 which is the next generation of graphics cards from NVIDIA.
I wouldn't recommend going below the 6800 since a lot of newer games have features that won't run well or will need disabled with anything older. If possible go for the 7800 because it's a newer card with new features and fancy nobbly bolt-ons which for possibly an extra £20-30 will stand the test of time much better than a 6800.
I'll now shut up and wait to be corrected on various points and shouted at by the "We Love ATI" crew.

[Danny]

I've got an Nvidia 6800 128mb card.

I bought it just before HL2 came out and it still runs every game I've got at maximum quality. You can get the GeForce 6800 GS OC 256MB for £140 (price quoted is from OCUK, but available for this price almost everywhere).

The card comes with free, easy to use overclocking software.

[Psychofly]

I've got a 6800 128MB too and the best thing about it is being able to unlock the final 4 pipes on it. I never overclock anymore because I don't think the benefits are big enough without serious cooling.
Unlocking from 12 pipes to 16 pipes gave me a fairly impressive performance boost and it's safe and easy.
But like I said if you can afford a 7800 it's the way to go.

[Rob W]

If you can stretch to a 7800GTX I'd go with one of those. I've just sold mine to a mate (well swapped it for a 6600GT and some cash) but I cant recommend them highly enough. Every game I had would be whacked up to maximum on everything and it still ran sweet as.

Though saying that, I'm now running this 6600GT PCI-E 256MB and I'm still running games at full whack and it's playing fine. My machine at the moment is a 64 3200+ with 2GB of RAM so the PC behind it is pretty good, the only game I've noticed slow down with has been COD2 but that was with trilinear filtering and when I changed it to bilinear it still runs sweet as with everything up at max, though I only run my games at 1024 x 768.

I'd recommend nVidia over ATi any day of the week, I just find them to be better cards with much better driver support.
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'16 GSX-S1000F

[WildGoose]

thanks for all the replies people, spent a large portion of last night, actually reading up on crossfire and SLI as they were both meaningless before

as i've gone for the SLI board, it would make sense to buy nVidia graphics cards to make the most of it, although only having 1 for now, opportunity to upgrade to two in the future

based on results and benchmarks i found here....

https://www.reportlabs.com/testbed/version1/grv1/grtop50.php

i've gone for the Gainward GeForce BLISS 6800GS GLH, slightly overclocked card as standard, and comes in way above any other 6800 in the range

from what i can work out the ATI equivalent in pipelines, clock speed, etc etc is the X800/X850 range

the 6800GS GLH comes in above all the X800s but below the X850 versions, though the X850 XT versions that did, were all way over the 150 quid mark

came in at exactly £150, thanks for the input
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[Psychofly]

Let us know if you're happy with your buy mate

[Danny]

Here's a link to a guide to unlocking your 6800:
https://firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_6800_unlocking/page2.asp

[WildGoose]

building the entire pc myself, so assuming im actually able to, i'll post up some details of the finished thing

be a few weeks tho
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[Rob W]

[WildGoose]

build begins..

started last night at around 10pm, i suppose it is easy compared to working on a bike, but i wouldnt say its totally idiot proof

to be honest, the case is fairly complicated due to clever designs and stuff, and it took about 20 mins to get it all apart in order to be able to insert stuff

point 1, there is no space to hold the motherboard correctly, and place it in the case, it just cant be done, so you end up fudging it a bit, and it so doesnt feel right, there just isnt the room for your hands

the instructions were arse, telling you to offer up the motherboard find which holes line up, remember the holes, remove the board, screw in the brass standoffs (off which they had only supplied 3 in the bag) then re-install the bored

this left me feeling rather confused and pissed off, cos what use are three, however there were already a load of non brass standoffs installed in the case which all lined up perfectly with the 9 motherboard holes, so i just screwed it in

the manual made no mention of the possibility that it would be that straightforward, which simple as it probly sounds pissed me off

also the I/O plate on the back, my "building your own pc" book said to remove this before installing the motherboard, the case book simply said ensure you have the correct plate to fit your motherboard, and the motherboard manual made next to no mention of it, it appeared to me tho, how would you ever install in back, with the motherboard in place as it pops from the inside out, to lock in place case of too many manuals probably

also the I/O plate has a load of tangs on it, which is doesnt make very clear what to do with, but assumed you couldnt use any of the ports without bending them out of the way, so i did

ok, its all simple stuff, but cant you just tell me in the fucking manual all this stuff?!

so got the board in and screwed up, then the processor, which was the easy bit, surprising how accurately they have managed to make the socket so that the CPU just drops nicely in, without even a push

then the heatsink, grrr the fucking heatsink, whoever designed the clippy bits that secure it to the base, worst. design. ever. one side goes on easy enough, then the other side requires stupid amount of force on a delicate component to push down over, feels like the who thing would break, or you would slip and stab a hole through the motherboard with your hand....

then there is this stupid plastic lever, attached to an axle that goes through the heatsink to the other side, the point of which i couldnt work out, but after both sides are clipped down, you have to rotate this through 90 degrees and hook it under a bit of plastic

and im fucked if it felt like it wanted to do that, much like the feeling you get with those levers on arai visors funnily enough, convinced it wouldnt go without breaking something as the motherboard was flexing a fair bit, much swearing, then left it for a bit, and eventually after many attempts got it round and hooked under, but really didnt feel like it wanted to do it

and finally, all manuals are very unclear about this thermal compound shit and whether it comes attached to the heatsink, or you need to do it yourself, or you need to add more of your own to the stuff that is already there, meh

it appears they assume you will buy your own third party heatsink and fan, but it could just say "if you buy a retail AMD processor it will come with everything you need ready to go, so ignore steps 1-10" yes it would never say that, but grrrr

and breathe, ram i was most worried about, because people say thats the easiest bit to fuck up, turns out the DIMM slots or nicely designed and both went in without issues

and i thought id stick the graphics card in as well, while i had everything open and on its side, ive done these before, and i have to say the PCI-E slot is a million times better mechanically than the AGP slot, as everything slipped and clipped in nicely

at this point i left it and put the sides back on the case, and my Athlon 64 sticker on the front, as my patience was shredded and faith in my computer building abilities hanging by a thread

currently, lots and lots and lots of wires going everywhere, a lot from the front case bezel and fan wires going everywhere, i guess this is where the real fun begins

next on the list to do is power supply, which will no doubt introduce more cables, then try and get all these cables on the right connectors and tidy them all up

then i am led to believe that with a motherboard, cpu, ram, graphics adaptor, and a power supply that your pc will boot up to the very initial stages of the BIOS to allow you to check that everything is ok up to this point, via a series of beeps

so thats the target for the moment, then will look at buying the hard drive(s) - although the way its going im buggered if i can be arsed with more than one, and the cd drive

i'll keep you posted

any tips at this point would be greatly recieved, am i the only one that finds this difficult?
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[carvell]

[WildGoose]

[Silver]

[Tarmacsurfer]

If it's any consolation Goose, I've spent the last two days stripping and rebuilding the fountain pump that sits in the bottom of my case (this is the fifth time, hopefully it's now sorted...). It's an odd sensation having to drain the bastard system every time you want to do something

It does get much easier with practice though, once you've got your head around it then you'll wonder how PC world ever managed to get their "PC MOT" thing under way, or how they manage to charge £25 odd to fit an already overpriced stick of RAM.
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I'm immortal. Well, so far.

[WildGoose]

right, for a final time

differences between sata 1/2 and any other versions, as i cant really get my head round them

its only a games pc, all my music, docs and stuff is all currently backed up on 2 external hard drives, 1 that i use all the time, and the other as redundant back up that occasionally gets updated with the latest changes but mostly sits idle with no power to it

so im not really too fussed about access times and stuff unless it directly affects gaming and load times and stuff in a serious way, and definately not arsed about RAID
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[WildGoose]

ok, ive ordered my hard drive and cd drive, the pair came to 80 quid delivered from ebuyer, the final components i need

finished the build of current components tonight, power supply went in, secured it upside down to start with, well it said it could be fitted either way, but it was clearly the most in-efficient way as far as cable routing goes

spent the rest of the time connecting up cables, the front case bezel, power buttons, audio, resets, usb and firewire, and went through all the components that came with the motherboard, extra usb ports, firewire ports, game controller ports, most of it got ignored as it simply wont be required and also keeps cable numbers down

the cables are quite messy, but there really isnt any way round it, and none of it is contacting any of the boards, although they are insulated anyway so shouldnt really matter

got everything wired up, and then connected it up to power and a monitor, and pressed the power button

it booted ram lights all flashing, 3 case fans, cpu fan and gpu fan all running and a display on the screen

didnt hear any beeps, but in my excitement i forgot to listen for them, so dunno if thats an issue yet, or that i just didnt hear them. cant have left anything un-connected so will just assume it beeped but i didnt hear it, or maybe it doesnt beep if everything is well, who knows

anyway, the hard drive and dvd drive arrive thursday, so that will be the next and final stage before loading the OS and configuring everything

quite happy so far though, as everything to this point seems fine, which means i didnt fry any expensive components via my amateurism


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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[senna_f4]

Congratulations wildgoose you did it! If you see the POST screen its all going to be OK in most cases

I would strongly suggest that you check for loose heatsinks etc after you install the drives, high possibility of knocking out the heatsinks and ruining the system.

Also you can play around in the BIOS to make things a bit faster.

If you have a spare cd drive download either knoppix (if you have broad band) or DSL and try running them.
https://www.knoppix.org/
https://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

Good luck.
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"You don't know the power of the dark side."

[Luke_Retrofly]

Hi
I told you to get a Geforce 6800 ages ago

Luke
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Flounced - Long overdue
Fuck you bitch I'm in the top 10 list I can do the what the fuck I want!

[WildGoose]

dont at me commuter boy, its not just any Geforce 6800
____________________
So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[Luke_Retrofly]

Hi
Yes it is, the more ££ a geforce 6800 the better simple

Luke
____________________
Flounced - Long overdue
Fuck you bitch I'm in the top 10 list I can do the what the fuck I want!

[WildGoose]

installed hard drive and dvd drive tonight, but got a few questions before i can go any further

got a question about the dvd drive, its a IDE connection, there is no SATA option, unfortunately the manual assumes there will be no SATA at all, and suggests that your HD will be using IDE as well

therefore it suggests that you have to set the jumper to slave if you are going to use the primary IDE and your HD is already set as the master for that

or if you are using secondary IDE and there is nothing connected to the secondary IDE port, set the jumper to master, or if there is something else using secondary IDE set the jumper to slave

now, my HD is connected via SATA so has nowt to do with the IDE ports on the motherboard, where do you suggest i install the dvd drive primary or secondary IDE, set as master or slave

sorry if these seem simple questions, ive searched the LG and western digital site and not uncovered anything in their FAQs about this particular issue

the dvd drive also has an audio cable with it, says this should be connected to the audio on the motherboard, but mentions this isnt usually required, what exactly is the point in it then

the motherboard manual mentions a connector on the 'system panel connector' where you connect the power button, reset buttons, and case mounted activity lights

there is an orange 4 pin connector within this, dedicated to 'system warning speaker' so you can apparently hear system beeps and warnings, now when i test booted the system up a while ago, i dont remember hearing any beeps, im assuming because there is nothing connected to this

the case has no 'case mounted speaker' as the manual suggests, so does this mean that i am never gonna hear motherboard type beeps, it doesnt mention anything like there is a speaker already mounted on the motherboard, i certainly cant see one

appreciate any comments/feedback/help
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976

[Psychofly]

First thing. Don't panic.

I've never setup a system with SATA drives yet so I'm not 100% sure on how you'd configure the IDE DVD drive. Don't worry too much about it though mate. If you get it wrong it just won't pick up the drive. Try the DVD drive in the primary IDE channel and set to master. If that's wrong then just change things round till it works.

My guess would be that since it's the only thing on the IDE controllers then it would have to be master on the primary IDE channel and your SATA HDD won't affect this. Don't worry about breaking things though mate... if it's wrong your BIOS simply won't pick up the DVD. It won't cause any damage.

As far as the audio cable on the DVD drive is concerned just chuck it mate. It transfers sound direct from the drive to the sound card instead of going through the motherboard and PC. Used to be needed to play audio CDs if I remember rightly but isn't needed anymore. Ignore it.

If there is no speaker on the motherboard and no speaker cables coming from the case to plugin to the connector block on the motherboard - again don't worry about it.
The motherboard beeps (POST results) are pretty useless these days to be honest. They don't actually tell you that much and any problems I have I tend to just unplug everything and then plug it all back in. I've never used the POST beeps as a troubleshooting tool because I think they're crap. The beeping annoys me more than the PC not working.
If you have a speaker you will always get a beep or beeps when you power the PC on. A single beep lets you know everything is OK.

Ignore the lack of speaker and be thankful you don't have to listen to the infernal noise.
Sounds like you're doing well with the build but seriously - don't panic about things. If you get it wrong you're not going to break anything.

The important things are :

1. Handle things carefully.
2. Handle things very carefully.
3. Make sure the motherboard is sitting on the little mounting post things and not screwed directly into the case of something will short and not work.
4. Handle thing carefully.
5. Don't lick any sensitive parts like memory or processor.
6. Likewise don't let your dog like them either.
7. Enjoy the learning process.
8. Don't panic.

*EDIT* Forgot the important one :

9. Don't apologise for asking questions. You can't be expected to know things you've never done before. I haven't got a clue about bikes and honestly struggle to do my chain and worry if it's right or not. I can do PCs. I can't do bikes. A question is never stupid - not asking is.

[AcIdBuRnZ]