Septicisms

[bazza]

"an act of asymmetrical warfare" - Rear Admiral Harris, US Navy

Now WTF is that supposed to mean mean?

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/5069230.stm

So let's get this straight, Admiral - you're calling 3 suicides an act of war?

"Retreat! Retreat! The enemy are killing themselves at us!"
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"That's it. You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college."
'98 Ducati 750SS, '08 Suzuki GSX650F ©2004-2014, Bazza's Harmless Banter

[Mister James]

Actually, it's exactly what I thought when I saw the news. Asymmetrical warfare means that the weaker party uses any means it can to inflict damage on the stronger party. In this case, the PR impact of the suicides was judged to be worth sacrificing their lives - something that Jihadis are sworn to do anyway.

Using selfharm or suicide as a tool is nothing new, I see several cases every single day at work, where detainees use S/H to try and manipulate and condition people, to help further their aims. This is no different.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[Ahmato_]

Ponder this- The only McDonald's in Cuba is in Guantanamo Bay.

I don't see how that is relevant, but I think the way they hold people without charge at that place despicable, I would hate that to be me, locked up in some place for something I didn't do...perhaps if they have done wrong they deserve it, but for the rest, is it work the risk?
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SavageKymco wrote: lol yea yea, im just gettin food here, keep my strength up you know. all this killing takes a lot out of a guy Ha ha

[Mister James]

[innominate]

I see the US's guys point about "asymetrical warfare" but i don;t think its a very good thing to say.


It will just get everyones backs up & I think it will do the US more harm than if he had just kept shutum. Or at least did not refer to it as the above...
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I, as a responsible adult human being, will never concede the power to anyone to regulate my choice of what I put into my body, or where I go with my mind. From the skin inwards is my jurisdiction, is it not? I choose what may or may not cross that border. Here I am the customs agent. I am the coast-guard. I am the sole legal and spiritual government of this territory, and only the laws I choose to enact within myself are applicable.

[byke95]

I can't see how three people committing suicide after being locked up for 4 years, with no trial, no access to a lawyers, constant brutality/torture etc. immediately qualifies as a well thought out act of warfare. Sounds like an escape plan to me.

[colin1]

I think the americans are sort of right about it being an effective stunt. The reason it worked was that not that long ago, guards were attacked when an apparent suicide attempt was a way of luring guards in, and then prisoners attacked. I think this has meant guards are now more wary trying to stop suicides.

However, they have enough staff there, that they should be able to prevent this even if its just for PR reasons. So its another american fuck up.

With IRA hunger strikers, they certainly werent given the chance to kill themselves with bedsheets, and wd often be force fed stop them killing themselves from not eating.

However, its really bad PR for some high up americans to show no sympathy and act as if they are the victims. Im sure that most of the people in guantanamo have little to do with terrorism and with little prospect of release if you arent from Britain, Im not surprised they wanted to die.

Guantanamo is probably illegal and at best is a sneaky legal fudge to get around laws. Maybe we dont care if it prevents American deaths, but Im not convinced it does. A terrorist recruiter is gonna love telling people about all the stuff america gets up to. If America fights dirty, it just means more people get outraged and want to kill Americans.

After Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland (paras felt threatened and opened fire on civilians), IRA recruiters were inundated with people who wanted to join.

If a British soldier kills a civilian in Iraq, there is an investigation and each case is reported. This may mean they hesitate and put themselves in danger but its good PR not to shoot first ask questions later.

Americans have a more gung ho attitude and if a few civilians gets killed its just seen as one of those things and regrettable. They will neutralise 'potential threats' rather than waiting until they can identify hostiles.

If i was a soldier in Iraq I would prefer to be under the american rules of engagement. If something moves shoot it. A car gets to close, shoot it. Its gonna piss ppl off but I wdnt want to take chances with my life. Id feel bad about it but prefer to be alive.

However that is going to escalate tensions, and soldiers shouldnt be allowed to do it really. British troops have experience of this sort of thing in Northern Ireland and know how to manage risk without inflaming locals by killing people at random.
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[colin1]

[bazza]

[colin1]

i dont think its in disupte that paras killed civilians. What do you think happened ? Or maybe you just dont think the paras felt threatened.

They dont know which of the paras killed people, so no one can be charged, and some say that it was sparked off by someone in the IRA firing a pistol, and the paras were returning fire.

if you want to read about it try https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_%281972%29
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[bazza]

[colin1]

so which bit of
"After Bloody Sunday in Northern Ireland (paras felt threatened and opened fire on civilians)"
did u think was wrong ? and why ?

do you think all the people who were shot had weapons or something ?
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Mister James]

[colin1]

[bazza]

[colin1]

[colin1]

[bazza]

[colin1]

i think its quite possible they didnt feel threatened and just fancied shooting some ppl, so i wdnt try too hard to back that one up. I was giving them the benefit of the doubt.

the link i posted suggested that the soliders were told to'get some kills' as a firefight was expected even before the day.

soldiers were told reports that there was an IRA sniper

there isnt much evidence which is irrefutable

you cant prove ppl felt threatened even if you want to

im happier that u objected about whether they felt threatened or not, as i had thought u were objecting to the bit where i said paras had killed civilians

forums are for spouting opinions you pompous old git

you havnt revealed why u think you are more qualified to give opinons than me on this matter

the start of this thread was u mentioning something you had read on the internet so is this the pot calling the kettle black ?
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[bazza]

[colin1]

[Mister James]

What you have missed is where I questioned whether they SHOULD place all detainees on a constant watch.

It is a very invasive and intrusive procedure, and often causes people who weren't unstable to become so, if they are put on in error, or because they were faking S/H issues.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[bazza]

[bazza]

[Paul@125power]

I reckon they should REALLY show us who is boss by all getting together and commiting a HUGE, GIGANTIC MASS SUICIDE, every single one of them.
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If at first you don't succeed.....destroy all evidence that you tried.

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