Riding on the right for the first time

[tahrey]

The only thing I can add to this, sensibly:

I've had no trouble adapting to kilometres and keeping to the right hand side of the road, despite people thinking it may be difficult. (Too many clues about, one of them being you're a brit on a foreign holiday).

However it's the more autonomous things that can cause issues. Stuff that you've gotten used to doing one way and one way alone. The three biggest things that nearly got me killed and deaded when driving On The Wrong Side:

1. Lane positioning. Applies pretty much exclusively to driving LHD hire cars, mind. You'll be putting far too much space between yourself and the centre line and risking ramming a roadsign through your passenger. Line up the headlamp with the dashed line - this is actually what you tend to do in britain, just mirror image.
2. Roundabouts. Arrrrgh. Probably easier on a bike than in a car (where the above problem gets even worse), as oddly the one place I've ridden abroad didn't have any that weren't spacious and empty, but you're having to deal with other road users who have a bit of a shaky grasp of the idea of personal space or lane discipline, and every instinct makes you LOOK THE WRONG WAY. You have to force yourself to look in the right direction and take the entry/exit right, which is right awkward at first and could get you in a shunt.
3. Side junctions where you're turning across traffic, either entering or exiting. Again, you're going to look the wrong way - I nearly got smeared by an otherwise obvious oncoming car by doing a lifesaver but not observing ahead... because, after all, i was turning LEFT, what was going to be coming towards me? And pulling out, your swing out angles are going to be all wrong in either direction (again, left is worst), and it just feels wierd enough that you hesitate on the throttle. Which isn't good if you're trying to grab a gap.

It may pay to find a quiet place to practice doing these things the wrong way round a few times til they're programmed into your muscle memory. The rest of it's a doddle.

Well, except for refuelling. Never yet been to a place where getting and paying for petrol hasn't been head twisting. We have it easy here, with the whole "insert nozzle, dispense, go give money to a cashier" thing.

[londonbill]

[nubdismate]

Me and my friends had a trip to Normandy in France last year, It was brill, but BEWARE the paint they use on the roads are of different material to ours, we found them very slippy in the rain, was only travelling about 7 mph round them and the back end would violantly step out.

[calyx]

In France, on a dual carriageway indicating left means "get out of my way! me. overtakes".
They don't tailgate like we do
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Boris - London

[turkish2011]

Hi

Thought you might appreciate the Turkish perspective on wrong side of the roadness. Been here for 17 years man and boy, teaching their kids the global language with mixed results. Yeah back to the roads, feels normal to me now, have more problems when I go back to the U.K and everyone is so bloody disciplined with lanes and junctions and lights and all that other stuff that Turks don't practise.
Roundabouts are just a joke! Most drivers don't know how to use them and you have to stop halfway round to let someone on, so it just get jammed up, someone needs to tell someone that a roundabout works but keeping the traffic moving, but they just stick traffic lights on em!
I always ride with light on, but then who does'nt? There seems to be a healthy biking fraternity here and there are a number of bike groups to choose from, so far ain't picked one yet, will wait till I get my next machine on the road, haven't picked that either, see my post on touring threads.
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Life is not about how many breaths you take but how many times it takes your breath away

[fraggie]

Just FYI.
https://www.francethisway.com/wp/all-cars-in-france-must-carry-alcohol-breath-tests/2012/01/

Yep, bikers/tourists too...

[_Chris_]

When turning - lefty loosey, righty tighty. All you need to know.
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Just getting started

[Jack1975]

Great topic! I tend to follow the vehicles for a couple of miles when I'm off the train or ferry to get used to driving on the wrong side of the road. Happened to me before I was driving alone on the road, no one around, then got down to the roundabout and drove it the other way round. No problem if it's in the middle of the night with hardly any vehicles, but I got damn scared to see those two head lights coming at me!
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Times fun when you're having flies. -Kermit the Frog

[almostthere]

Nearly ran somebody over in Germany I didn't realise on pedestrian crossings when the lights go green so does the green man to cross the road how fucking mad is that I wondered why some irate german bint was kicking the side of my van!!

[vmax30]

In France..... Generally zebra crossings = speed up except maybe in town, Ive lived here for years and really have to concentrate if riding or driving in the UK now....... so when I cross the road in the UK I quickly glance at the car no plate to check......
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www.biketoursbiarritz.com

[Ali in Austria]

Don't assume all German Motorways are derestricted even if the speed of some of the traffic suggests they are. You need to look for the sign with 130 crossed through in a similar manner as the UK National Speed sign.

As someone else said, many motorways are 2 lane and traffic doesn't allow such high speeds. Many also have lower speed restrictions. A left indicator displayed on the vehicle behind indicates he wants to come by and they will tailgate at high speed. As already mentioned, an apparently clear lane when you prepare to move out to pass can soon be filled by an impatient car travelling at warp speeds and it will catch you out.

Pedestrian crossings can be well concealed in the most inappropriate places. They are not well signed like in the UK and any signs can easily be lost in clutter around them or not be well positioned in the first place. Areas that see snow suffer from the paint on the roads disappearing over the winter adding to the difficulty in spotting them. It is common in Austria for vehicles turning on a green light to have to give way to a pedestrian crossing just inside the turn.

Unlike in the UK, many areas in Europe do not have signs announcing the possible presence of cameras. They are often at ground level, very small by UK standards, usually painted grey and extremely hard to spot. The Police do not have to be readily visible and will actively hide. Often if you see the Police stood at the side of the road ready to pull you, you have already passed the Radar Gun. I have seen them hiding behind cemetery walls and on several occasions have seen the Stop but never seen where the Gun was concealed. The good thing is, certainly in Austria, these traps tend to be on restricted roads, especially within towns and villages and I have only ever seen one in Austria that was on a derestricted section of road. It was one on a long straight where the sports bike brigade had a penchant for winding it up and passed a couple of farms on brows so I guess there had been an issue. I have found that drivers will warn motorcyclists of speed traps ahead but don't appear to warn other cars.

It is surprising how many people ride in foreign countries but haven't a clue what the speed limits are. It is easy to fall foul. Certainly here the locals will abuse the National Speed Limits but stick to lower restrictions. The name of a village or town on a white background with a thin blue border actually denotes a 50kph limit. A similar sign struck through denotes the end of it. Many towns are now enforcing even lower speeds and these are denoted by a traditional looking speed restriction sign but often only of a size similar to a UK repeater sign. People get caught out especially when they have been in a restriction of say 70kph and then see a sign with that speed struck through next to a town or village name sign. Unaware of the significance of the name sign they think they are back in a National Speed Limit. Lower restrictions are usually there for a reason and only for as long as is necessary. They can often apply only in one direction. It can mean however that you have a series of such restrictions only separated by a few hundred metres of National Limit.

Speed limits are not repeated as they are in the UK and it is easy to forget what limit you are in. The same applies to restrictions on overtaking where a sign can be accompanied by solid white lines which revert to broken lines but the restriction is still in place. Solid white lines mean do not cross and this doesn't just apply to overtaking. You see a petrol station on your left but the road markings are a solid white line then do not turn in to it. There will most likely be a place to do a U Turn further up. There is one near me where people do this and then do it again when they leave to resume their route. The local Police love this one and will give you a ticket for turning in and one for leaving. Even a field entrance requires a broken line for the farmer to be able to turn across in to it. Another common scenario is a no left turn sign for the petrol station but a junction layout opposite that specifically allows you to turn right first and use that junction to cross over. Underpasses to cross junctions are quite common out here, even for small roads. These can cause confusion.

Fines in Austria are relatively cheap and no points. If you riding like a lunatic though, you will not get the opportunity for a ticket. It is straight to court. Like many places in Europe fines are expected to be paid on the spot and they will escort you to a Cash Point.

As has already been mentioned, take great care in Switzerland. Although I have never been caught, I know a few who have and the tales of woe are frightening. I have no idea how they set the fine but there does appear to be a level of means testing based on type and condition of bike and your occupation. Always play down your occupation if you are unfortunate enough to get caught out. The National Speed Limit on ordinary roads is 80kph. There is no apparent tolerance. They treat all motorists the same. Typical fines for being a bit over the limit that I am aware of range from €750,- and an immediate ban on a German who knew the system to €1300,- to a Brit with his wife as pillion who didn't and declared his occupation as a Doctor. His ban was delayed just long enough to allow him to ride back across the border from whence he had just come. These unfortunates were also advised that there would be a second fine of a similar amount sent through the post to their home which if they didn't pay, do not return. The Swiss Police have also started checking motorcycle tyres at organised stop checks and a defective tyre appears to attract a €500,- fine.

A typical fine on the B500 in The Black Forest, Germany last year was €100,- for being a bit over the limit.

In many EU countries filtering is illegal. We all do it but get caught then don't complain. While many motorists will move over to let you filter, some will actively block you. Resist any temptation to react because they probably have the law on their side.

There is a fairly new law on Austrian Motorways at least, that in the event of stationary or slow moving traffic then lanes of vehicles must move over to form an emergency corridor between them. Very tempting for many a car driver let alone a bike. I would be very cautious of utilising the nice space afforded as you will pay dearly if caught. My rule of thumb is that if several other bikes from the home country are doing it then I will follow with caution.

You will see many bikes filter to the front of a line of traffic stationary at lights at road works or controlling some mountain tunnels. When I say many, I mean many and they force their way to the front. In high season it can be so many that the 4 wheeled vehicles are unable to move off during the light change. Be courteous to other road users. Behaviour like this just makes them more reluctant to be courteous back in other areas.

Riding or driving on the right (or wrong side of the road as we Brits prefer) isn't difficult. Some people use aids as a reminder. However their are times when you will forget yourself. It can for example be at an approach to a roundabout when you just can't process what you need to do and is often caused by fatigue. The most dangerous time is pulling away after a break or fuel stop and just forgetting yourself. Touch wood, the only time I did it was in a service area where I entered a roundabout directly from the car park and had obviously used an exit as an entrance. I then proceeded to negotiate the roundabout the British way making exiting very difficult due to high kerbs on angled slip roads. The P**S Taking wasn't that bad due to the fact a number of other bikes blindly followed me

Get in the habit of just reminding yourself where you are before setting off. It is not unusual for me to see Brits stopped at a junction or traffic lights on the wrong side of the road.

Fitting auxiliary lights has been known to earn you a fine in Germany where they are sticklers for type approval.
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A Petrol Head in The Alps
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[Bunny Lingus]

Done a two week road trip tour of Tunisia. I love the place but as road trips go, this one could have gone either way. It wasn't so much riding on the right as driving on the wrong. The driving rules are based on the French model but the driving standards ain't. Not a bit of it. I can guarantee that Tunisia was the worst place I have ever driven or ridden in my entire life! Wha'Dafuq has got nothing on this place. I had ridden through Morocco in my youth but that was with some hairy arsed fellas & it was a rough & tough experience. On this trip I was taking my girlfriend so I did the sensible thing & hired a Renault Clio Classic. It proved to be a shrewed move! I'm probably gonna digress all over the place with this but persevere, its some crazy arsed shit.

Big towns like Tunis are mental for pedestrians. They walk about in the roads without a care in the world especially around Ede or Ramadan but its ok because usually you're bumper to bumper with the dude in front as the whole place is a rush hour hell hole. Seaside towns like Sfax & Sousse have Caleches, which are horse drawn carriages for tourists. The horses have minds of their own & the operators beat them mercilessly if they stray. I didn't like that as I hate cruelty to animals. One bastard beat this poor little nag in Sousse so hard I jumped out of the Clio & chased him up the road on foot & would have shoved the whip up his dirtbox if I had caught him.

Inter city routes are very dangerous. They are usually single carriageway & you have to tailgate the guy in front at ALL times or the dude behind you WILL overtake you & shove his ride into the gap. Fuelling up in big cities is a must! If you don't, you run the risk of running out & then you're at the mercy of highway hawkers selling pop bottles of petrol watered down with piss. Out in the twigs is also dangerous. Every sort of shitbox vehicle is on the road - two up pushbikes, three up mopeds, rickety horse or bullock drawn carriages, overloaded pick-ups full of paying punters & all their luggage, ancient lorries with wooden scaffolding carrying untethered animals. Very few of these vehicles would pass an MOT.

Probably the worst are new 4x4s which take tourists to sights. The drivers think they are superior & they drive like it. We kept bumping into 'em everywhere we went. Then there are domesticated animals such as goats & sheep which are going to slaughter for Ede. They escape or fall off the back of a lorry or are driven along or across the road by the herdsmen. None of this will faze anyone who has driven round India but I haven't & it sure did faze the living piss out of me. Christ knows how I would have coped if I had stuck to the original plan of doing it on two wheels.

You get used to this shit real quick. You have to, Tunisia is a do or die place & it does not suffer fools. I got caught out badly a few times. The lush & wealthy north is a complete contrast to the central & south & after a couple of days in the capital we drove down through Kerouane to Chebika to see the beautiful gorge on the Algerian border. So cool & photogenic was this lonely & desolate place that we forgot all about the time & that was a very very foolish move. The sun just seems to drop out of the sky in north Africa & by the time we got moving it was nearly dark.

The Tunisian government doesn't give a shit about road maintenance out in the twigs & the road, despite being an A road equivalent on the map, simply ended. We were driving on the sand! The Tunisians call this 'off piste'! I didn't want to stop as I thought we would get bogged but my gal was in floods of tears & I was shit scared we would drop into a troglodiste village! Some Tunisians in the south live underground in caves hollowed out in the sand, I kid you not! There is absolutely no warning or fencing just a huge central hole with tunnels going from it to the living quarters. Dropping a Clio down a seventy foot hole on top of Tunisians celebrating Ede would not have been very well received.

So we had to stop. We sat in the car & had a huge blazing row, resigned to the fact that we were going to have to rough it for the night in the middle of the fucking Sahara. I suppose we were there for about an hour & a half when suddenly we saw lights in the rear view mirror & they were getting closer, fast. So I started the motor & put the hazards on. A fucking 1970s coach full of punters roared past us showering the Clio in stones & sand. I could not believe my eyes. Our ticket out of the desert had just arrived so I gunned the Clio praying we weren't stuck in the sand insh'Allah.

Off we went as the tiny little red lights disappeared into the ether, trying to avoid the sheep sized boulders that littered the otherwise barren landscape. We caught him up - mistake number two, never follow a speeding 1970s coach too close in the Sahara. The shit this thing was kicking up was like being shot blasted. We had a £350 damage guarantee riding on this Clio so cracking the windscreen was a no no & I could almost feel the paint being blasted off the bonnet but fuck that, we were gonna get the fuck out of the desert & that was all that mattered. I told my gal 'its ok darling, this guy knows what he's doing, he's a commercial driver', as the rocks rattled off the bodywork.

We followed the coach for about three quarters of an hour until the surface became more solid. I didn't know at the time but we must have been on the Chott El Jerid, a huge dried up salt lake. Finally we got to a road & a good one at that. I was shattered & badly in need of a piss, so we stopped to look at the map & smoke a joint to calm our nerves. Whilst pissing, I noticed that I couldn't hear anything. Nothing. No birds, no bugs, just the sound of piss hitting rock hard salt. I have never been anywhere on earth as silent as this place. Being salt, nothing lives there. Spooked the hell out of both of us.

By the time we reached Gabes it was nearly daylight & we were both totally fucked. No camel trekking for us that day but we did find the only off licence in a hundred mile radius & that suited me just fine. I spent the day pissed drunk & I wasn't in the mood to make no apologies for it despite the Islamic call to prayer going out every few hours. Off licences in Tunisia are sordid little affairs - holes in the wall where booze is thrust into black bags out of sight of the faithful. Our little hotel was awful but later that night we were to find out just how awful budget accommodation in north Africa could be.

We heard the horns at midnight. Beep, beep, be be BEEP. Over & over again. A sodding wedding party had arrived & we were treated to an all night celebration so around 3 am we woke up the clerk & checked the fuck out & blasted the Clio down to a place called Matmata near Tataouine. If it sounds like something from Star Wars its because Lucas shot one of the original movies there. We checked into a Troglodiste hotel & spent the day with some French speaking Canadians who were cool as fuck, eating endless food & drinking excellent Tunisian wine. I had difficulty sleeping that night as my gal had developed a serious snoring habit, the goatskin bed was making me itch & I kept dreaming that the sandstone ceiling of our cave was falling in on us.

We went camel trekking the next day. I had the big male camel & my woman got the female. My camel was randy as hell & when we saw another camel train he got all randy & started making weird noises. We baked bread in the sand with Mohammed our guide & he told us how the Tunisian government had long been mistreating the people of the south who were mostly Berbers not Arabs, keeping them in managed decline & constantly turning off the water so the tourists could have their showers. Signs of poverty were everywhere - the roads were shit, the towns were unfinished but we felt more at home than we did in the tourist traps of the northern & eastern resorts.

I could go on & on about Tunisia. The two weeks we spent there were priceless & it was the best road trip I have ever had. So many contrasts & so much to do. The place is fairly small so its easy to experience everything there was to do & see. I have left out so much including our dirt-biking excursion in the sand & our boat trip which were both rip-offs. Our nightclub nights out & our swanky restaurant meals also got the chop as did our druggy nights in & my brush with the law. There is just too much to blog about. The important thing though, is the road trip. Without our little Clio classic we couldn't have done any of this. I only wish I had the guts to tackle such a place on a bike but believe me, it would have been a nightmare especially with my woman in tow. But don't let me put you off, try it for yourselves. I'll post up some pics when I find the disc...
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Bunny Lingus & The Flipside Faggots

[Skyblue]

Have booked a Villa in Menorca for next year's holiday & you pick up the hire car at the airport! The more i think about driving on the right the more i'm getting nervous. Are the clutch/brake/accelerator in the same way or a mirror version to our ways.

[yen_powell]

[weasley]

Menorca is pretty quiet and the roads pretty simply. As said, the car layout is the same as usual but on the other side. The main difference you may find is they have these junctions off of main roads that mean to turn right, you have to exit left which leads you to a crossover to get back across the busy road. It means you don't stop and wait in the main road, but the first time you see it it can be a bit confusing.
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Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[rawdred]

Dont you just love that first roundabout when you get off the ferry in Dover...
its like "woooaaahhh?"

[Twofish]

[gonzo1]

Just come back from my first trip in france and the best advice I would give is go with someone experienced.I stayed behind our "guide"for the full 4 days we were there watching and learning from him.We are returning next year on our own because we now have the confidence to do it ourselves.However,like most say,driving on French roads is generally a much more relaxed experience than driving over here......and far less potholes.

[Ebbs73]

Really interesting reading , My friend and I did 10 countries in the summer and I've got to say , everyone we met , everywhere we went they were great , the police and paperwork checks were all friendly and at times funny , we even raced a French police car after he told us to go for it ! Bit strange .
Everywhere we went my Norwich and Peterborough debit card was taken , even in the deepest of hungry .
It's a gold current card , don't charge for the transaction and do the exchange rate of the day . Cool .
We did see rubbish driving but nothing that the ride off the tunnel within 3 mins we wouldn't see worse .
But yes , a couple of times my friend was shouting in my ear " wrong side of the road " normally after a rough night in the tent .
We did 14 days , 4000miles ish , camped every night , fuel + food + tunnel £780.00 give or take .
Go for it gents .

Chris

[Barnaby Wilde]

As already been pointed out, but worth repeating that the most dangerous time is when the road is empty and/or you are tired. I once pulled out of a French hotel car park into an empty street with no visual cues like traffic and started riding off down the left side of the road. It was only when I noticed that the road signs were back to front that I realised what I had done! Since then I have tried to make a point of reminding myself where I am before setting off. I once rented a car in Canada after a long flight, and after a stop to say hello to some friends I set off down a country road on the left. I saw the lights ahead and wondered what he was playing at before the penny dropped and I swerved to the other side of the road!
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Booorn to be Wiiiilde.....!!

[Vifferguy]

[haggis]

I always forget where I am on the second day, you know you wake up with slight hangover and ride out on autopilot and wonder why that bus is flashing his lights at you ... and he's on the wrong side of the road!!
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www.perthtoperu.com | www.perthtoperth.com

[Billy Balthorpe]

Try to remember (on a bike) that the kerb should be somewhere under your throttle. Works for me when you get that panicky feeling when you cant figure out if you are on the correct side of the road or not.
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M.O.B. Successfully taking the piss since 2014.

[steve the grease]

[Weisse Schlange]

I just wouldn't over think it.
It takes 5 minutes to get used to and becomes automatic in no time.

The only thing I would say is wake up at T junctions lol. Other than that it's a piece of piss.
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Hing Oan