stuff leaking :(

[neeeel]

I have just bought a tzr 125. It goes ok, but the temperature gauge always reaches half way after 5-10 minutes of not always constant use, whereas my friends temp gauge stays at 0 for the same length of time, so im guessing that i have cooling problems.
also, it has started leaking a thick-ish grey liquid from underneath the bike, it looks like its dripping from the bottom of the engine but its hard to tell unless i take stuff off and clean the bike up a bit, which i will have to do i guess
does anyone have any ideas on how i can
a) sort the cooling problem
b) find out why my bike is leaking

or have some tests or things to try to help me diagnose the problem
I am a bike newbie when it comes to mechanics, but i want to learn, ive got a haynes manual

thanks for any help
neil

[Bomberman]

As far as cooling goes, first off (assuming its second hand) the fluid could have been in it for years and therefore not that effective. Drain and replace
As to the leak you've pretty much hit the nail on the head. If you don't start pulling stuff off you'll never find it On the TZR (I have one too), if you get the fuel tank and airbox off, the engine is pretty much laid bare so you can have a good poke around (easy to do too) Grey isn't a good colour though as far as I know... Sounds like fuel and oil mix or something (although I could easily be wrong )
____________________
'Allo! My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!
'89 TZR 125 - '94 GPZ500s - ZK3 GSXR600 Alstare

[ram_doom]

Oil and water mixing together it sounds like
____________________
TL1000s, KDX200

[neeeel]

ok thanks, any ideas on what is the commonest cause of this, and how they can both leak or mix together, since i thought water didnt actually go into the engine ( i know, i m a noob, i dont know much about bikes)

[Bomberman]

Aye sorry, I meant water and oil... could also be a pointer to your cooling probs so keep an eye on your expansion tank. If its dropping, that could be it.
____________________
'Allo! My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!
'89 TZR 125 - '94 GPZ500s - ZK3 GSXR600 Alstare

[neeeel]

what do you mean by dropping? If you mean , do i have to fill it all the time because it gets empty quickly then yes, I have had to fill it 3 times in the last week or 2.
Its a bit strange tho, cos i didnt notice it leaking when i first got it, only in the last couple of days, but it always seems to have had cooling probs.

[Bomberman]

Well bearing in mind my TZR hasn't lost a drop from the expansion tank in two years I'd say that's where the extra liquid you're dripping off the bottom of the engine is coming from. Is it a grey sort of emulsion?
____________________
'Allo! My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!
'89 TZR 125 - '94 GPZ500s - ZK3 GSXR600 Alstare

[neeeel]

yeah thats exactly what its like.
so you think theres a leak in the pipe between the expansion tank and radiator?
or is it something more terminal than that

how can the water get mixed with oil?

thanks
neil

[neeeel]

the leak is coming out of the bottom of the engine, where 2 parts of the engine are joined together. This is near the area where the big pipe from the radiator goes into the engine. So theres something wrong inside there, how easy would it be for a total novice to do something about it, or should i just leave it to the professionals
thanks

[martin young]

Are you sure that's where it's coming from?

If it is, then it sounds like a water pump seal, but that seems unlikely.

There are not many places for oil and water to mix on a 2 stroke.

What mileage is on the bike?

Most common thing is head gasket failure, and would account for the losss of coolant in the expansion tank. If the head gasket has been blown a long time then it could be the crankcase is filling up with coolant. This is not good at all.

You need to identify exactly where the leak is in order to know how much this is going to cost. To be honest, it will be far more affordable to fix it yourself, if you are able to do so.

[carvell]

[Paddy Blake]

w
check the oil in the gearbox.

[neeeel]

this is the best picture i could find to show where its leaking,cos i dont have a camera

i know this is a tzr 250 casing, but its similar, and shows the rough area where the leak is on my bike

thanks for any help

[Whosthedaddy]

Could it be as simple as a gasket that needs replacing?
____________________
Current : MSX 125 Past : CBR 900RR Monkeybike : c50 LAC : ZXR750 H2 : FZR600 : ZX7R P3 : YW100 : TRX850: Trophy 900 T309 : GSXR 600 L0: Monkeybike : XJ6S Whosthedaddy

[martin young]

Don't fink so. This greyish gunk sounds like water in the oil, particularly as the coolant level keeps dropping.

Could be water pump seal. Could be head gasket. Either way it could be water in the crank which may mean knackered mains and big end.

Hopefully paddy blake is right.......pull out the dipstick and see what the gearbox oil is like.

[Bomberman]

No dipstick mate, viewing window on the TZRs. neeeel, looking at the pic you posted two things spring to mind - first, is that where its leaking or just where its collecting? Secondly, isn't that very near the drain plug on the 125?
____________________
'Allo! My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father, prepare to die!
'89 TZR 125 - '94 GPZ500s - ZK3 GSXR600 Alstare

[neeeel]

as far as i can see, that is where it is coming out of the casing, it seems to be coming out of the seal or joint between two parts of the casing. I dont know about the dipstick, but there is a little plastic cup on the side, with some sort of liquid in it, and a lower level mark, and the level in that seems to be ok, if that is the viewing window thing you are talking about

thanks

[martin young]

What colour is the fluid behind the window? What does it look like?

[simon1221]

[Bomberman]

[flat spot]

If it's a greyish sludgy stuff it's water mixing with oil in the gearbox. It's unlikely to be the head gasket as that would blow the top of the water reserviour.
It's likely to be the water pump seal. I don't know the tzr engine well but it's probably quite straight forward to do. Get a haynes manual.
As for water in the crank and knackering it, don't worry. The last I heard 2 strokes have a seperate gearbox and the crank is lubed by 2 stroke oil.

[neeeel]

ok i had a look in the little window thats supposed to show the oil level, theres nothing in there
what is this oil for? some posts have said its transmission oil, is this right? do i need to put special oil in there, or just any engine oil.
why would it be empty anyway? to be able to mix with water leaking from the water pump , the oil must already be circulating in that area, and if it is, why doesnt it leak out of the engine casing on its own

Im hoping it is something as simple as the water pump gasket, ive ordered a new gasket , doesnt look too hard to fit. This doesnt explain my cooling problems tho. I might try to check the thermostat, and drain and clean out the radiator, and put new coolant in.

thinking back, there was one time last week where the temperature gauge was at a bout three quarters of max, and when i turned the engine off, there was a funny noise, which may have been boiling water , it sounded a bit like a rumbling belly :p
could this have blown the gasket? even before this though, the temp gauge would go up to half way really quickly

thanks for any help
neil

[martin young]

Well, there's no oil in the window so maybe it's all leaked out from where you first saw it. It is gearbox oil. Not alot of point refilling it as you seem to be losing it from a leak in the cases.

Water pump gasket - no. Water pump seal - yes. Can't remember whether this is accessible from the outside or if the large side casing has to come off.

Yes flat spot, you're smarmily correct. My suggestion of a knackered crank was, as you know, because water loss could be attributed to head gasket failure. Thanks for trying to make me seem stupid.

[simon1221]

[neeeel]

been messing around, drained the transmission oil, which I thought was empty, but it was actually full of grey oil/water mix, which made the view window look like there wasnt a level, anyway, got most of it out started to take the casing off, and theres a bolt thats stripped and just wont move
so now i cant get into the casing. I know you can drill them out, anyone know any easier ways to move it, its not in an ideal place either, cant get a socket round it.