33 bhp on the new r6

edd · Nearly there... Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Karma :

I just had a thought about the new r6:
It has fly by wire throttle control, surely given that the throttle can be controlled by the ECU the bike could be re-mapped in order to give 33bhp from wherever the bike makes 33bhp in the first place. Ie. not knocking off any off the bottom end like a normal restrictor kit does. Just thought it would make the bike a hell of a lot more rideable than a standard restricted bike. (Its still fairly academic to my situation since theres no way i could afford a new R6) what do you guys think?
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Keir · World Chat Champion Joined: 11 Apr 2006 Karma :

i think that with the lack of bottom end the new R6 has you would have one very rubbish bike.

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

Won't work.

The bike may have electronic fuelling but it isn't infinitely variable.

Not only this, the cams, intake manifold shape, valve area, and exhaust are all fixed. All of these things would need to change in order to make the bike 33bhp with a huge bulging midrange.

Power is just a function of torque and revs, so restricting the revs would cut the power, but the power delivery of the new R6 would not lend itself to sub 33bhp riding from what I hear.

So I don't think it would work.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

edd · Nearly there... Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Karma :

Im not talking about EFI, On the new R6 the throttle is opened and closed by the ECU, and that is most definitely fully variable. ie you twist the throttle, that sends an electrical signal to the ECU, and the ECU then opens the actual throttle plates. Throttle plates are essentially a variable restriction. Im well aware that power is a function of torque and revs, that is exactly the point.

At low revs the throttle could be held wide open until the point in the rev range that acheived 33bhp was reached, at that point more revs = more power, so if the throttle was progressively closed by the ECU as revs increased, torque would fall as revs increased meaning that power would remain steady at 33bhp, all the way thorugh the rev range. Im aware that the new R6 is supposed to be all revs, and has no midrange to start with, but it is the only bike that I know of with a fly by wire throttle, if the idea would work in principle then it could be applied to other bikes.
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Slickfish · Crazy Courier Joined: 24 May 2005 Karma :

I think any bike that produces alot of power needs to produce that to feel rite.
if your looking at 33bhp, loo at 400's SV650's etc they are around 60-80bhp, and light.

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

proximity · Crazy Courier Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Karma :

Of course the throttle changes torque otherwise you wouldnt accelerate from your current RPM when you twist the throttle.
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2004 Aprilia Tuono

johnsilva · Traffic Copper Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Karma :

restricting bikes to 33bhp should not be allowed

problem solved
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Current Bikes: ZX7R P5; KR1S C2; GPX250R F3
Previously: CBR400RR-R; YQ50 Aerox

8316 · Could Be A Chat Bot Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Karma :

the new r6 is rubbish unless you are constantly giving it beans-it has no torque!
a restricted r6 will be truly pants-go for a bike with some midrange!
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Now own a Fireblade!! Speed Limits? Bah!

proximity · Crazy Courier Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Karma :

I agree its a completely pointless idea, unless you had like a switch so you could unrestrict it whenever you like.
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2004 Aprilia Tuono

johnsilva · Traffic Copper Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Karma :

cough "like a seven" cough
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Current Bikes: ZX7R P5; KR1S C2; GPX250R F3
Previously: CBR400RR-R; YQ50 Aerox

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

8316 · Could Be A Chat Bot Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Karma :

Just checked the R6 power curve-makes 33bhp at 5k, but only 28ft lb torque. compared to the 675 it makes 42ft lb!!!!!!!!!!! makes 33bhp at 4k an all.
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edd · Nearly there... Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Karma :

This thread is not about choosing a bike, I already have 2, both of which have over twice 33bhp its about an idea. The throttle is called a throttle because it "throttles" the engine, preventing it from revving to redline from when you turn the key. The throttle is a restriction much like the restrictor washers fitted to restricted bikes, only it can be adjusted from a massive restriction (where your bike sits at idle) and (virtually) no restriction where your bike is at full throttle. Throttle position and RPM are 2 entirely different things. If they werent EFI systems wouldnt need to know Throttle position as well as RPM. Revs do not change instantly in reaction to throttle, you can apply full throttle up a very steep hill in a high gear and your revs will not climb very quickly at all. If the R6 makes 33bhp at 5k then by progressively closing the throttle as revs increase it should be able to maintain a steady 33bhp. This wouldnt need variable cam timing, ignition, fuelling, and inlet and exhaust shape the throttle directly controls the amount of air which can enter the engine, subsequently the EFI system adds the correct amount of fuel to this air. Normal restriction works by reducing the maximum inlet size, in exactly the same way the throttle would. BUT by having a fixed restrictor it limits the amount of torque which can be made at low rpm, knocking out midrange. Im not suggesting the R6 is a good bike to have restricted as I have previously mentioned, but that isnt the point of this thread.
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johnsilva · Traffic Copper Joined: 11 Mar 2005 Karma :

proximity · Crazy Courier Joined: 08 Oct 2004 Karma :

I think the point is this way you can have 33hp throughout the rev range, instead of just a 33hp peak.
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2004 Aprilia Tuono

fuzz · World Chat Champion Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Karma :

edd · Nearly there... Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Karma :

NSR Mick · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Karma :

[quote="johnsilva"]

8316 · Could Be A Chat Bot Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Karma :

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

8316 · Could Be A Chat Bot Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Karma :

NSR Mick · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Karma :

8316 · Could Be A Chat Bot Joined: 08 Jul 2004 Karma :

What came first? Cool

1-0 to me
If Honda had official paintjobs with "fireblade" written on it..... 2-0! Laughing

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edd · Nearly there... Joined: 06 Jul 2005 Karma :

Dyno graphs are always done at full throttle, if they were done at half throttle the would show much less power. I am trying to convey an idea to you that hasnt as far as I know yet been implemented, so i cant show you a dyno graph. My point is made very obvious by the fact that many FI bikes are restricted by having their throttle movement reduced, preventing the throttle from opening fully. My idea is EXACTLY like this, only I wouldnt be losing all my midrange like someone with a fixed throttle restrictor would be.

MarJay; get on your bike on a flat road, stick it in first and give the bike half throttle. Keep it there and gasp in wonder as the bike's revs climb and it hits the redline, change up and watch it do the same. It will only stop when the bike is not producing enough power to counteract the frictional forces acting on it. At this point you need MORE POWER to go faster. Opening the throttle further will give you more power and you will then be able to accelerate further. I agree that 33bhp restriction is stupid, but its ridiculous to say that throttle position doesnt affect power output, when it obviously does. If throttle position didnt affect power output how can bikes be restricted by throttle movement?
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