The side lets me down.

[MementoMori]

I would like some general and varied advice and opinions on something that's getting to me, and this is the only place really available to me where I can get these thoughts.

This is however, a largely male dominated forum and I'm worried I'm gonna get some very unhelpful comments from those who have a problem with women. So I would appreciate if those people would leave me alone for this thread.

This sounds rediculous but I feel castrated. There is so much emphasis on what it is to be male, and the Western world is riddled with obsession of the penis. There are constant references to sex and the penis on TV, radio or amongst males, that it's hard to get away from. There's also a lot of adverts or roles in which females are depicted to be mentally stupid, and the amount of products aimed at females to 'look pretty' is beyond a joke.

I feel like such a tit to feel this way, but it's making me feel somewhat worthless and inferior. Women have long since been acknowledged as inferior, and although it has gone a long way since the 50s and such, I'm starting to think perhaps men were right to keep women in the home? Are women really there for sex, and to look pretty these days?

Like I said, it feels like it but I'm having a hard time accepting that and it's not helping my relationship with my boyfriend right now. I'm not sure what I'm expecting of you. I'm not sure anyone will reply at all. I think I just wanted to tell people how I am feeling at the minute.

I understand that to most of you, I'm just another typical moaning woman who doesn't know her place so please don't feel the need to remind me.

Anyway, if you've got this far, thanks for reading.

Ah, that feels better. Thanks. Please don't hold this thread against me in the future!
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The tiger who came for a pint

[Laura]

I think you need yo get a grip of yourself tbh.

You only make your self a victim in most cases if you act like it.

I have worked in industry full of men took me about a forngith to show them i was equal to a certain degree.

Men are going to better at somethings than women accept that.

Sex sells you just have to accept that.

The day most men dont find a steryotypical women attractive is the day they stop appering.

And really the britan are only recently becoming the un prudish nation we have been for such a long time sex is facinating everyone
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Good girls ride motorcycles bad girls thrash them.

[Bendy]

The problem with the internet is that a lot of the time you can read conversations that you'd be better off not hearing.

Any time a picture of a woman is posted, the boys proceed to dissect it in terms of attractiveness and sex appeal. Never mind that they might be ugly as sin themselves, it all boils down to 'phwooar, I would' and so on. Now a girl will read that and think 'oh my god, is that really how men objectify women' and it can be quite depressing, especially if (like me) you know fine well you're never going to be classed as 'fit'.

But, they're not doing it to be mean, it's just a readable example of the thoughts going on in the average male's head. Its just that its on a screen and you're reading the locker room conversation... not really so different than those that groups of girls have, I'm sure.

TV and the media is a hollow vacuum of 'be blonde and thin and pretty', the more cleavage you show, the more column inches you get. If you're a bloke, it's okay to be fat and bald and wrinkly and be on telly but it's still the case that women are hitting their sell-by date at 30, and the likes of Desperate Housewives just set the targets even more unrealistically for what an older woman should look like. But is that all down to men?


Don't feel worthless and inferior, just feel different. I've always been a girl who prefers the company of blokes (and not in an attention whore, look I can toy with all these guys who fancy me way) and for the most part have never had trouble being treated as an equal. Perhaps too much sometimes, it would be nice now and then for them to realise I'm a girl! Accept the media as what it is, and be glad that you're someone who can see through it. Plenty of men do just want something pretty on their arm and the thought of a woman who is their intellectual equal scares the shit out of them - fine, you don't want one of those men anyway.

By biking, you've entered a male dominated society. Represent the female cause by not making a big deal of it (I cringe at 'oh my god I'm a girl on a bike aren't I amazing' types).

Incoherence factor 7 tonight.

[.....]

Don't worry your pretty little head about it. Now be a good girl and put the kettle on

[lozzypop1]

Hmmmm.....

DISCLAIMER: I'm probably going to just add fuel to the fire here... but it is my opinion, to which I don't expect anyone to agree. But then again as I have just pointed out, it is MY OPINION, not yours, his or hers!

I can completely see where you are coming from on this one, but lets think logically for a sec:

Have you ever been in a relationship where the person you are with really, honestly sees you as beautiful? I'm talking when you're:
Having your period,
hung over,
Full up with snot,
and First thing in the morning.

If you have, then you must have had the conversation of him saying 'why bother getting dressed up? I think you look good in jeans and a T-shirt' (or something of a similar nature)
On the same token... the truth is that you have probably spent your life being judged on how you look, I know i have... Smarmy comments from the back of school buses, your mate always pulling the guy you wanted... etc etc.
All this affects the way us girlies see ourselves.

[MementoMori]

Cheers Bendy, top answer. I have a bit of a negative outlook at the minute, so don't always look at things as rationally as I should. Also, I don't really have the experience that comes with time to take a step back and look at it objectively.

It's difficult for me to try and ignore the 'oh is that your boyfriend's bike?' and 'sure you shouldn't be on something a bit more girly, say a scooter?' comments.

I also spend the majority of my time with lads, and always have done pretty much. Consequently, I'm not the most feminine of females and I suspect I'm probably just feeling the pressure to conform.

But thanks again for the different outlook on the situation. Probably didn't take you too long to type but it has really helped so I appreciate it, thanks a lot.



Loz, just went to preview this post and saw your post thing, but I have a bath running, and am in danger of flooding the bathroom so will have to read in a bit, but thanks for typing all that!
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The tiger who came for a pint

[craigie b]

You know the media is so false....90% of what you see on tele has been edited in computer, or blue screened or had make up artists on it etc etc. The problem is people watch tv and other mediums and begin to mix it up with what reality actually is.

The media loves to whore women (and guys) because sex sells. end of story. but the media, whilst being their for our entertainment, is there to make money. Due to this we get bombarded with infinite images of false beauty, unrealistic expectations and imagery that, if your feeling down, can only make you feel worse because it makes you feel like everyone else has it sooooo much better.

The harsh reality is though the media is not real and you have to really believe this to begin to ignore it and see it as nothing more a fictional medium of entertainment and advertisement!

I think its wrong to say women are seen to be inferior. Some guys out there will treat women like shit and some women will treeat men like shit. Inferior has nothing to do with.....it is down to the individuals.

Chin up, happiness isn't a measure of wealth or status, its a measure of quality of life and how much you appreciate that quality of life (IMO)

[veeeffarr]

It's all just banter what's said on here (I can speak from my part anyway).

I find a real, curvy woman 100x more attractive than some airbrushed stick insect who doesn't know how to hold a conversation.

Sometimes it's our imperfections that make us more attractive.

[byke95]

As stated already, try and look at the media in a different way.

While I don't doubt many adverts pander to stereotypes of females, this is also the case for males. As a male I am much more than a big-breasted-loving petrolhead who's only conversation skills are when it comes to football. However, some of my friends do fall into some of these statements, some don't. Change the previous statement to female stereotypes and, while you do not see yourself as part of it, you will possibly know of females that do. The media is a bizarre reflection on humanity at it's basics, it cannot, by it's very nature, target individual traits as they will be non-profitable.

Interestingly, you mention 'since the 50's'. I'm often amazed at how differently the female role was back then (and the male role). Makes me wonder what sex roles will be in the latter part of this century. All attitudes and beliefs are time and culturally sensitive.

The important bit is that you stay true to who you think you are. Many people go through life not knowing this so if you get there, you've done pretty well.

Bendy, I think you're fit.

[Bendy]

[veeeffarr]

[yambabe]

I think you're over-analysing it all and giving yourself needless stress and worry to be honest.

The one thing that all the emancipated women of the past have given us women of today is, to a great degree, freedom.

Or at the very least freedom of choice. The only thing that constrains us from doing what we want to be or being who we want to be is our own self-imposed limitations.

You don't have to conform to any sort of stereotype, although it's a lot harder to appreciate this whilst you are still so young. You have to decide what and who you are, and learn to (one of my favorite expressions!) be comfortable in your own skin. This takes time, and you will probably make many mistakes along the path of finding yourself, all part of the learning process.

It all sounds very cliched, but even cliches can be true sometimes.

Learn to laugh at how the media portrays people. It's not real life, it's not even a reflection of real life, it's a carefully calculated and manipulated way to sell product.

Don't aspire to be something you're not, instead explore what you can be and find what's right for you.

Remember that old song that goes "I am what I am"? That's me that is, and if you work on it it can be you too.

Other people's opinions of you can seem very important at some stages of your life - they're not. Your own opinion of you is much much more valuable and is where you need to be looking if you want to make changes to yourself.
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Sod falling in love, I wanna fall in chocolate.

[JonB]

You think it's bad now in 2006?

Good fucking job you wasn't around 50-100+ years ago then, women didn't half the rights they have now.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[msgander]

Dont let the false shite get to you, that is all it is. In honesty if people cannot see beyond the foundation and treat you as an equal then they are not worth bothering with.

I am 36 with one child, skinny bitch but ideally like to be a stone heavier a few curves would be nice....

I get crappy skin and with horses and child running around I cant really be arsed with make up other than if I'm going out for an evening or need to for work otherwise I'll scare everyone!

For the FIRST time in my life, I am with a guy who doesnt care how shitty I look without make up, indeed he'd sooner I didnt bother.

He doesnt care whether I have small tits or large ones, its totally irrelevant, it simply does not come into the bigger picture.

The run of the mill bloke (younger ones...) "normally" (not saying exclusively) tends to judge a person as they believe their mates would, its all a silly competition, suppose it goes back to cave man culture.

What you need, if indeed you want a man in your life right now is someone who actually likes YOU, enjoys and gets off on your company, ok has to be some attraction but you DO not have to be a false plastic looking fake blonde to do it!!

If a bloke wants that of you then thats down to you but there are real guys out there who sincerely dont judge like that, those are the ones to bother with.

I am fortunate that I can do the dressy up tart thing if so required but am much happier on a horse or covered in hay, or on a bike sweaty and hot, I have got to the age where I dont care if I look like crap when I go to the shop to grab some milk! I have friends who spend an hour putting a face on before stepping out of the front door!

What is important to me though is that I know I am a nice person on the inside and I will not be pushed into thinking I have to do things because some pretty little thing has an fancy airbrush false picture on the front of a mag!

Most blokes in reality prefer real women.....we are those women, real women of BCF unite lol!!!

Dont let false imagery make you feel that you have to keep up with that. Its simply not real. Most catwalk models can hardly string a sentence together, least of all get their knee down.

Bendy raised a good point, what is feminity? To some blokes its big tits, to the real men amongst then its something entirely different.............so hang up the stilettos and get those leathers on!!!
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Always believe that your guardian angel flies a bit faster than you...............

[quacker_boy]

Sticky, what is feminity? In my mind it SHOULD be equality.

But unfortunately, the modern day has a different perception of things. I look around myself every day and catch myself watching how my mates treat their girlfriends.

I know what they're often saying is wrong, i'll give an example. My closest mate Paul has got a STUNNING girlfriend, really pretty. F**k knows how Paul got her but apparently he's a right charmer.

Now these guys make a great couple don't get me wrong, but Paul isn't good to her. They claim to love each other like crazy i don't believe that for a second, Paul will go to kiss his girlfriend and occasionally she'll reject him.

A little over a week ago Paul started to have a go at her saying she barely kisses him, their sex life is non existent etc. When Paul told me all of this i couldn't help but think "hang on, i thought you loved her, loving someone is about screwing them every opportunity you get, it's about spending as much time with them as possible without showing a drop in school grades etc".

I didn't voice my opinion to Paul or anyone else for that matter simply because i know all my mates would say why are you siding with my girlfriend and probably start thinking i like their girl or something .

Is this fair? Is it F**K! If someone truely loved someone else, spending time with them is more than enough, anything else, in my eyes, is just a bonus.

I can safely say i have more girl mates than i do guy mates and i want that to change in that i'll find someone i love and truely care about and will do anything for them. Whether that'll ever come i don't know, but all my female friends constantly confide in me that "My boyfriend keeps on trying to force me to have sex with him and i don't want to etc".

Your average bloke i'm sure is a pretty decent guy but at the end of the day most of them are all the same. Looking for a cheap thrill that they can hold onto for a while before moving on. It makes me sick hearing my mates say "but i love her so much and she means the world to me". What do i want to say to that? It's complete and utter BOLLOCKS, you loved your last girlfriend as well...and all the ones before that.

Onto the imagery thing, the stick models you seen on T.V, in magazines, on catwalks, forget about them. Now. They've probably spent extorniate amounts of money on getting themselves to look like that and for what? So they can strut their stuff and have old men in the audience tossing themselves off?

A lot of my female friends aren't perfect and i know that, but everytime they ask how they look, my reply's never better or stunning or something along those lines. Why? It gives them moral support and makes them realise some guys truely appreciate girls for who they are not what they look like.

Real beauty's on the inside, getting to know a woman properly and you may feel you start to like her for who she is with regards to her personality rather than what she looks like. I'm not entirely sure whether i'd enjoy having a hot girlfriend or not, all my mates would come up to me saying "oh yeh i'd do her" it'd piss me off.

I know in the "You and your bike thread" I said to Simple i would. But before any of you slate me for that what can i say, guy instincts take over occasionally unfortunately and i'm just another prick goggling at a pretty girl.

Hope you girlies took the time to read this, and any guys who read this, don't flame me for having an opinion.

As Stanley Ipcus said in the movie "The mask", "Nice guys finish last"...which probably explains why i don't have a girlfriend .

Chris

P.S. Sticky, i'm 17, that mean i'm an abnormal bloke?
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wizzzard wrote: Imagine God just stopping by, tidying your front room up and then quietly letting himself out again. Statisticly more likely to happen than Korn being on here.

[WavyGravy]

OK This might come under the 'varied' option.

We are all living in a turbulent time of change in the relationship between male and female, this change is accelerating, image has become king or should that be queen?, fame for fames sake has become an acceptable ideal among a large percentage of the young, schoolchildren for the last generation have been deliberately confused by being fed a diet of conflicting moral guidelines.

Take a look at the current government - It really is the triumph of style over substance - no accountability for those who have their snouts in the trough - but they have 'winning smiles' - they are 'media friendly' and they keep on getting away with it because the younger generation no longer have the fire to go and demonstrate!

They have become more interested in what their peers think of them rather than what they think of themselves, hence the importance of having the 'right' jeans, phone, trainers, and ultimately - friends.

From a male point of view, having the right friends can also extend into having the right girlfiend on your arm, it's hard to break out from this attitude when all around you is set out this way. People who adopt this lifestyle succeed in impressing their shallow peers, and when they realise their mistake they stay with the same person for no other reason than convenience.

I think you're doing the right thing by questioning yourself and your state of happiness, if your boyfriend doesnt treat you as an equal then you have to decide if thats an acceptable state to be in, things are topsy turvey in the 'battle of the sexes' ........ it's a fact that women are paid less than men for doing the same job, and at the same time some misguided civil servant wants me to call a manhole cover a personhole cover!

You are right to question your role as a woman in such a confusing social atmosphere, i'm not surprised you are confused, at least you havent rolled over and accepted the status quo as your only option. So, do you look up to Jade Goody or Hilary Clinton? .... you cant say both because one wants to change the world and the other wants to change her hair colour, when you get the time to think about you want, then the road will open up infront of you and you'll have a focus, it sounds like the process has started .... good luck!
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1975 CB125s, 1991 GN250, 1990 Ducati Paso 906
"Don't wake him up - He's got insomnia - He's trying to sleep it off"

[colin1]

Im a bit curious how thoughts on this theme are affecting your relationship.

Its easy to dismiss societies expectations as unreasonable. Why should women have to look pretty ? Why should men have to aspire to high status jobs ?

You can do your own thing and sod everyone else and you will probably be ok.

But there are valid reasons behind these apparently unreasonable expectations. Our drives and desires have evolved around reproduction, and a bloke is going be attracted to a woman who is physically healthy (slim), with good genes (pretty). A woman is going to be attracted to similar in a man, but more important for her is his status so he can provide for her when (assuming )she has kids. Men can be scornful of women who are just impressed by someone with a flash car, house, job etc and women can be scornful of men who are impressed by a girl who is pretty or slim.

So I think its good to aspire to conform to societies expectations as it can help your appeal to the opposite sex even if you have already found someone.

Its easier to stay in love if she doesnt get fat and he doesnt lose his job.

As for women being seen as stupid or whatever, its just because a lot of women dont take an interest in some things, so most wont know about them.

A mate needed to buy some bits for a rebuild on an rs125 and when it was a woman serving him, he started explaining at length what he needed. She cut him short and told him what he needed. He had never met a woman who knew about engines before so it hadnt occurred to him that she would know. She may get pissed of with all the blokes assuming she knows nothing, but they are just making a reasonable judgement based on their experience. More blokes know about engines than women do. Not because women are stupid but because most women have no interest in them.
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Visitor Q]

Hmmm, you feel castrated?

Blokes now are fucked in the middle, we're supposed to be "men", and yet theres almost as many products for us as for girls.

My dad produces (well the company hes pretty high in) mens health, and ALL the models are gat. This is because normal men dont look like that.

But its becoming as much a meat market for blokes as it is for women.

And the thing that worries me are girls like you who are constantly out to prove they are capable of everything guys are. Im all for girls in biking, but girls adamant they can walk home on their own, go out on their own, serve in the forces on the front line (i dare you to contest the insanity of that) and various other jobs.

Im all for girls being independent, and ive been very humbled by SOME girls ability to outsmart me or perform so called masculine tasks.

But i think its very important to remember our innate conditioning.
Women make better primary care givers then blokes, and that is a genetic thing. Guys can and do make great fathers, but there is no comparison to a mothers love.

I think sometimes the feminist movement has lead to some very harrowing developments (for instance the whole ladette culture).
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China traffic/travel bike vid - When I make a sweeping statement, please add the word 'statistically' in to the sentence before you bitch...
From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...

[killa]

Some good replies up there guys….

TBH I think both sexes have come a long long way since the 50’s, the media does take a strong hold on us through daily life, but only as much as you let it.
I haven’t sat down for more than 10 minutes recently to watch TV in the past 10 months, I watch films but I love them for the fiction. When I have seen snippets of TV, I’ve felt pretty shit, mostly because news is really depressing but seriously the ‘Wham bam in your face’ barrage of adverts has you glued to the telly, your just taking in the products for what they claim is a ‘better’ life.

Although I do agree with most things that were said in the first post, if you think in a similar way and you are male, you’ll feel pretty much the same.
I can put up a shelf, I can maintain a motor vehicle, I can bodge most electrical appliances like a man should be able to but there are hundreds and hundreds of things I see that are portrayed as ‘real’ men type tasks and interests that I bloody hate.
I’ve always gone my own route, I’ve tried my best to do it, I’ve had comments that I could have taken seriously, and if I did I would be an insecure mess I reckon.
I sometimes feel I’m the only one not good with money, spending too much, riding fast bikes, eating the wrong food, drinking too much etc etc.
The sooner you realise that you’re so fortunate for just being just you, the better.
If you study media you’ll see that it changes like the weather, it’s about what’s in, what’s out and what’s coming soon, and that doesn’t come from nowhere, it comes from people like you and me.
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 | Killas Biking History | Killas Gaming History | Killas autmotive history

[Nath]

[xlizx]

I cna understand where you're coming from. I egt sick and tired of hearing guys going 'Oh, I'd do that...I'd put it right up there' in reference to an attractive girl. I have guys making derogatory comments, and I watch them gawp when I tell them I go to university and plan to lecture Classical Civilisations and become a doctor of it. Men can be utter twats...but....
I have a friend back at Mc Donalds (which I've left) who is the biggest pervert going. However, he dotes on his young daughter like she's the most important thing in the world, and knows where to stop, even if the situation is something he himself has insiunated. That makes him a good family man and a good partner, depsite his lecherous ways.
Personally, I can't stand Alpha Male penis waving when women are involved. Probably because my ex used to treat me like a little blonde trophy he could carry around, then put me on the shelf while he went and nobbed someone else. Yeah, guys are gonna find women attractive, but do they HAVE to be so crude with their comments? It can be quite degrading, if you're the woman involved.
Don't forget, letchy men can be a good advantage. I wouldn't have gotten a raise at Mc Donalds if I wans't female, all the men there were on less than me (except the managers), and being female's helped me get a bar job too. Play men at their own game, maybe it'll help you financially as it has me.
Don't worry about it. Have a chat with your partner and let him know how you feel. Maybe it's just a bit of reassurance you need. But then, if thats the case, go get a manicure and a new hairstyle (or a new bike!), why the hell would you need a man to make you feel like a woman anyway?

[Skunkcap Freddie]

sounds to me as if your having a bad week /month
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Northern Irish Biker? www.nibikers.com

[craigie b]

Liz, I've heard women be just as derogatory as any man....in fact far worse than any man I've heard. When I used to work in a factory up north of the border the women would turn the air blue.

it used to crack me up because I'm a particulary vulgar, crude type of guy however I think its wrong to say all men are vulgar without pointing out that so are women. Once again it boils down to the individuals.

[xlizx]

[Harold_Shand]

Blame the Christians.

I'd love to see us as if we had stuck to Paganism, unfortunatley it wasn't to be. Ho Hum.
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BCF's 6th favourite poster 2009-2010

Harold_Shand's theory might be the best explanation.