Idiot kills his daughter

[california_rookie]

For the record, I take issue with your calling the man an idiot. I will be taking a friend of mine's 13 year old son as pillion today while she takes her 9 year old on her R6. It is a given that I will be speeding. As will she. We are not reckless riders. There is however a minute but very real chance that an accident may occur and however tragic that may be I'm absolutely positive that she would harbor no ill will towards me regardless of that speed I was traveling at the time. I can't see how this thread rails against the father when it was clearly the driver of the car's fault for pulling out without properly checking for oncoming traffic first.
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[Silver]

[NinjaBoy]

[MikeH]

On one hand I think what a complete twat, on the other losing your Daughter is unthinkable poor bastard.

I occasionally take my 12 year old with me on rideouts, but I'm always towards the back if she's onboard. I don't care what anyone else does she's worth more to me than my ego. I can save the looney juice for when she's tucked up at home
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Busa Junkie

[KatOwner]

It's a tragic accident.... but it was avoidable.

The guy was RACING and that's the bottom line. We have all done it, and we all know we shouldn't.... but NEVER with a pillion on the back.

You can't predict their reaction in a crisis, they can't do anything about what you do, and in an accident, while the rider braces himself on the handlebars, their back makes a perfect launch ramp to ensure the pillion leaves the bike first and at higher speed.

When you take a pillion, you take 100% responsibility for smeone else's life. Ride like that!

[Torque05]

I go on the back of my dads vmax, and he does have a bit of fun but its always slower when im on the back. Its horrible to think a Dad would race with his daughter on the back.
She put her trust in him and he failed her by just generally driving like an idiot.

Always ride with care with a pillion, always make sure you can handle the extra weight.
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[california_rookie]

Alright then. So, what if the object traveling at 80 miles per hour wasn't a reckless motorcyclist but in fact an emergency vehicle such as a patrol car in hot pursuit or an ambulance rushing someone to the hospital? All of a sudden it's okay for someone not to use common sense just because it was a worthless biker they pulled out in front of and not any one of the many vehicles authorized to travel at speeds exceeding the posted limit? Stop making excuses for the same horrible drivers that have spawned so many of the 'ive crashed' threads on this very forum.

And, yes, I do believe that a 13 year old child is mature enough to make decisions for him/herself. Do you not trust your children to cross the street by themselves? That's far more dangerous than being taken for a ride on the back of a motorcycle.

Life is for living for fuck's sake.
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[tsmith]

i don't condone speeding through 40 zones or anything but doesn't it say the 4x4 pulled out in front of the bikes?

normal drivers get to junction...look...see headlights approaching (even at speed)...wait for them to pass then pull out


or in a 4x4's case.....get to junction...look...see headlights approaching at speed... pull out anyway...hey i'm in a big invincible 4x4 who cares...splat...sorry mate i didn't see you....gets away scott free.

[Silver]

[california_rookie]

What are you saying, that emergency vehicles aren't allowed to exceed the speed limit there?
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[TL666]

It was just a tragic accident. No need to blame anyone. Doesn't achieve anything

[lozzypop1]

They do... But legally they're not allowed! (I heard that some ambulances are restricted to 57 MPH although I don't know how true that is!)

EDIT: I agree with you there DL666:

[Keen]

read the story.... you can argue all day about whether it was his fault for hitting the landrover, maybe he should of been more observant or maybe it was just tragic bad timing.... but in court it was stated that he was CHASING the other bike after the other guy passed him and dented his ego. Thats out of order. We all have moments of madness on a bike, but you don't have them with your young daughter on the back. You don't have the right.

Still, I feel incredibly sorry for him. You don't get over something like that. The guy's life is ruined.
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[Spoonman]

of for christ sake! some of the crap being spouted in here is really beginning to get my goat!

the bottom line is that yet another motorcycle accident has resulted in another life lost.

facts:

the pilot was riding in a highly irresposible manner and should have known better.

you can allocate a portion of blame on the land rover driver if you like but personally i would be slow to do so - if you're pulling out of a gate in close proximity to a corner around which you cannot see, then you can't help but trust to some degree that no-one is going to come around said corner at stupid speed.

as i have already stated, speeding in itself is harmless.

but placing youself in a situation where you cannot stop, or are unable to engage in effective evasive actions in the distance you can see ahead is not smart.

it's another typical example of failure to anticipate possible hazards and it is the single most provident reason why "accidents" occur.

[Walloper]

"Desmond Fenton, who denies causing the death of his daughter Rebecca, 15, by dangerous driving, travelled at up to 80mph in a 40mph zone as he pursued the other machine. "

80 in a 40, his 15 year old daughter pillion, chasing another bike,
denies causing the death of his daughter?

My arse.

He should be flogged.
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[Silver]

[phk6]

wot a dick why would you do that with your daughter on the back, stupid prink.
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[california_rookie]

I suppose the reason I am so quick to take up arms for poor mister Fenton is that I too plan on having children. And shortly thereafter, if they're interested, I too plan on showing them the joys of motorcycling, which would include speeding among other potentially more dangerous things. Why? Simply because life isn't about sitting at your desk scoffing and calling people idiots. It's about being said idiot and having a good time of it.

It's not that I don't see the reasoning behind all the nasty comments and name calling, it's just that I don't agree with it in the slightest. If it were my daughter, yes, of course I would be crushed. I can't imagine how much sorrow and remorse the poor man must feel, but I hope he doesn't feel any regret. Because I wouldn't.

The bottom line is this: It was an unfortunate, but avoidable, series of events that led to a man losing what had to have been the most important thing in his life. I don't believe he needs to be picked apart by a bunch of people who he has never met and who only have the most infinitesimal grasp of the situation as provided by a few words written by someone who, in all likelihood, wasn't even there.
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[Keen]

I'm not deliberately trying to be offensive, but I have to say I think thats a load of pretentious bullshit. Its very easy to say all that stuff about living life to its full now, but I'm pretty sure you'd feel different about it if you killed or paralysed your innocent daughter. Try telling your grieving wife that you were just out there living life to the max and that she should feel no regret... see what she says.

Everyone here rides bikes so I'd guess most will agree with your 'living life to its fullest' philosophy, but thats not an excuse to recklessly endanger the life of someone you're close to. Its not an excuse to endanger anyone other than yourself, which is what you're doing if you ride like that in town. No matter what your personal attitude to life is, you have to consider how it affects everyone else
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[Spoonman]

i'm with keen!

i'm all for living to the full - but that doesn't have to include being stupid and irresponsible.

if you want to race there are plenty of purpose built environments and if you want to race on the road, there are plenty of road racing clubs and events every year. there no excuse for failing to anticipate the fact that there could be a hazard around the next corner -- it's simple common sense.

i'm not having a go at the guy, i'm just trying to press the point to Mr. I'm-happy-to-die-and-take-my-loved-ones-with-me-as-long-as-i'm-having-fun here.

don't be bloody rediculous!

and you don't have to be an idiot to have a good time.

i say this as a snowboarder, rockclimber, motorcyclist and licenced skydiver - living on the edge requires an appreciation of the risks involved and of your own mortaility and that of those around you.

and again, i have no problem with speeding, or stunt riding, or racing - just so long it's done in it's place.

this not only allows you to enjoy what you love doing, but to do so in an environment where you don't have to worry about landrovers pulling out of gates - there are stunt parks and race tracks all over the UK but public roads are not among them.

[angryjonny]

Ok. Can we lay off the poor guy? Yes, he did something stupid with monumentally catastrophic consequences. He's killed his daughter through his own recklessness. I can't think of anything worse. So, y'know... what he probably doesn't need right now is a forum full of people telling him what an idiot he is. I'm sure he's aware of that. It's one of those situations where if you can't add anything constructive then don't bother saying anything at all. Let's all learn from his mistake/misfortune, become better and more considerate riders from it, and let the guy try and get through this in peace, if he possibly can.

[california_rookie]

Well Keen, Spoonman, for me it comes down to this: Which viewpoint do I find more logical, the one based on every day I've lived of my 25 years thus far, not to mention the one expressed by those whos opinions I value most, or the one I might have after being traumatized by a near fatal accident and/or the death of a loved one?

Just because you feel it doesn't make it right. And that's called thinking logically. Just because you feel like strangling your boss when he/she's ripping you a new one in front of your co-workers doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Logic. Just because someone left their key in the ignition doesn't mean the car's yours to do with as you please. Again, logic. Abstract? Yes, but you see my point.

And exactly how much fun can you have when you've got 'safety' holding your hand the whole time? I feel sorry for those who think they're 'living life to the full' when every risk is minimized into near-nonexistence.

I don't have any interest in pointlessly putting mine or anyone else's life at risk, especially someone I love, but if the alternative is living in some padded, sanitized for your protection, mockery of reality then I'd rather take my chances in the real world.
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[Spoonman]

[Mister James]

[six]

I remember a story of some guy whose daughter came to meet him as he got out of a helicopter. He lifted her up, and one of the helicopter blades took her head clean off!

It is a terrible thing, and I am sure he didn't mean to do it. You feel invincible, especially if you have been driving long enough. However he is going to have to live with it for the rest of his life. Poor sod.

Tom
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