Smack/crack addicts

[gadfium]

Was thinking about this the other day......I have in my past had the misfortune to work with a confirmed heroin addict (we called him Mr. Dead after the Harry Endfield show, cos he looked half-dead).

Now then, this wretch was a danger to himself and others (I once saw him smacked out working heavy machinery). he was so fooked that he couldn't drink his morning brew as he was dribbling into his cup......I am also fairly sick and tired of seeing dirty scruffy bar-stewards ligged out on the streets with scruffy dogs begging to feed their habit. This lead me to thinking about the amount of crimes that are committed to support dope habits....

My solution....every time that there is a major drugs bust/seizure I reckon that confirmed smack addicts should be given as much of the stuff free-of-charge, as they can pump into their rotten veins. This would have a number of advantages:
1: Crims wouldn't rob old dears for their habit as often,
2: The pushers would have a harder time selling their gear,
3: Total wasters/hardcore addicts would probably max out really quickly, thus shortening their miserable lives (meaning that that us taxpayers would pay less supporting them..think of dole, housing, jail cost etc, etc).
Give it to 'em free, the more that they can cram in the better....

I am not talking about a bit of blow....only the hard stuff, heroin, crack, meth etc. Nobody in todays world would get involved with this stuff not knowing the dangers.

Before anyone asks, I do not read the Daily Mail or Express and I consider myself liberal. Yes I have had my share of "recreational substances" and I think that it is right that society offers as much help to those that want to help themselves. For the rest of the wasters, let them kill themselves as quickly as possible...
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Those who risk nothing, do nothing, achieve nothing, become nothing.

[angryjonny]

I always thought we should go the other way.

Legalise everything. The whole lot. E, crack, smack, whatever. Sell it in licenced premises, tax it and use the revenue from the tax to fund clean safe places where people can go to buy and take their junk with clean disposable needles and first-aid on hand if needed.

If there is a demand for something and you make it illegal, all you do is create a black market in it. The more difficult you make for people to get hold of it (by seizing stashes or imposing tougher penalties) the more expensive the stuff gets and the more pensioners have to be mugged to pay for Mr Junkie's next fix.

The prohibition didn't work in the US because people wanted booze. In the same way, people in the UK want drugs and if there is a demand there will always be someone there to meet it. Better it be an official body selling uncut gear in clean premises than some lowlife selling Ajax out the boot of an E-class.

[G]

They have something like this in Holland.
Although not 'give them as much as they want', but enough to keep them from buying from dealers and causing a problem.

The average of a heroin addict is a fair bit lower than that in the UK, I believe - suggesting less people are getting addicted in Holland.

[craigie b]

I'm fairly liveral with this simply because declaring war on drugs does not and has not worked. THere is not one shred of proof that prohibition works, in fact history shows the reverse I believe.

If the problem is governed rather than flung into the black market then junkies can get a cheap/free score which means less robberies, less street prostitution, less violent crimes etc. It also removes the black market thus freeing up police time.

It would also mean less spread of disease as clean facilities were available and stop people dying from drugs which were of a stronger consistancy.

If the currrent method is not working why do we insist on dealing with the issue in the same manner, year in year out?

[Dragonfly]

I dont think serious hard drugs such as herion,speed,E etc should be legalized. Hash yes maybe.

I dont want to see more people off there heads on herion i already have a client like that and its pityful seeing it. Come down harder on them.
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All the breast.
Muzza on Binge:
He's too busy beating the everloving shit out of Lizzie to notice this thread has taken a turn down Drama Avenue and stopped off at the popcorn shop.

[zaknafien]

[Dragonfly]

well what do you surgest? They need help dont they?
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All the breast.
Muzza on Binge:
He's too busy beating the everloving shit out of Lizzie to notice this thread has taken a turn down Drama Avenue and stopped off at the popcorn shop.

[craigie b]

[pwntifex]

[Itchy]

[innominate]

Depends on what cost me less..



Get a decent UnbiaseD (if its possible with the rabid anti-drugs groups in or near power) investigation into how much these drugs cost the average person.



Impact on taxes for giving them it free. (and associated costs)

Versus

Impact on taxes for Jail (and associated costs) and the cost of goods to cover the robberies.



I am guessing (No actual facts here, just a hunch) that it would be cheaper to give em it free.
+ Hopefully the stigma of going to get your government sanctioned fix every day, would dissuade more people from starting in the first place.

If Tony says its legit then its deffo not going to be cool anymore.
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I, as a responsible adult human being, will never concede the power to anyone to regulate my choice of what I put into my body, or where I go with my mind. From the skin inwards is my jurisdiction, is it not? I choose what may or may not cross that border. Here I am the customs agent. I am the coast-guard. I am the sole legal and spiritual government of this territory, and only the laws I choose to enact within myself are applicable.

[angryjonny]

[craigie b]

societies view on illegal substances are hypocritical and fucked up. You can get seriously fucked up on goverment sponsored drugs like alcohol and fags but if you don't like the violent, bloated, black out-esque effects of drink or the way it lowers your self control, the waking up next to absolute strangers and the depression that a hang over leafves you with your pretty much fucked and out of options unless you go to the doctor and tell him your depressed (ahem, reality check, re-read as fucking unhappy because you thougt life owed you and now you've grown up to a mediocre existance you feel that this unhappiness must be depression because ever other fucker is so happy with their lifes).

I was chatting to this lass earlier on in the week who was on anti depressants becasue she was depressed. She wasn't depressed she was fucking unhappy because she had 15000 of debt and a boyfriend who treated her like shit. What does the doctor do? Prescribe her drugs which will numb her fucking brain over so she can forget about her problems. Happy days so its ok to get high if your unhappy and the doctor gives you drugs.

So the moral is its perfectly acceptable to get fucking monged out on valium, diazapam, opiates, codine, temazepam, thamelgesics if you have a problem but its fucking outrageous to say lets go out drop some E and dance the night away as them illegal drugs are bad....Have you ever met anyone who spent the last ten year on Valium? Its not a pretty sight.

Its a big bunch of government sponsored arse if you ask me...which nobody did

[craigie b]

the lass in question then later went onto slash her wrists because she couldn't cope with the effects of anti depressants and drink BTW.

So a guy on a trip jumps of a roof because he thinks he can fly and every newspaper starts printing about the horrors of illegal drug abuse yet the mong who takes legal drugs and decides to commit an orgy of violence is considered a non story.

arse

[Itchy]

[angryjonny]

I apologise... I've just realised how arsey the phrase "I think you'll find" reads. I'm turning into everything I hate.

[Mister James]

It's interesting to note that everyone seems to want to kill murderers, but I'd bet that the average heroin junkie causes more misery every year (albeit spread about) than one murder does.

When I worked at the court my old supervisor and I used to talk about mercy-killing career criminals, for the good of society. Just a pipe-dream, but hey!
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[innominate]

Thats just retarded,.


Of course murders cause more misery.


A stealing junkie may piss a fair few people off, but robbery is something you get very pissed off about. Though its not likely to deeply affect you for the rest of your life.

Having a loved one killed is on a whole different level.
____________________
I, as a responsible adult human being, will never concede the power to anyone to regulate my choice of what I put into my body, or where I go with my mind. From the skin inwards is my jurisdiction, is it not? I choose what may or may not cross that border. Here I am the customs agent. I am the coast-guard. I am the sole legal and spiritual government of this territory, and only the laws I choose to enact within myself are applicable.

[killa]

[JonB]

What Mister James is probably correct. Seeing as a lot of murders are a consequence of drug fuelled gangland mobbery it would probably be sensible to say that the average Junkie causes more hassle for the average UK citizen than a lone psychotic killing one person.
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[Annabella]

Community Prescribing anyone?


Drug addicts are entitled to treatment at addiction services where they are monitored by a drug worker regularly, some go for daily appointments, others weekly, and a rare few (who are stable) monthly.

They each have an individual recovery programme that consists of precribed doses of methadone, this is gradually reduced and to ensure they are not taking other drugs on top they are routinely tested. Part of the prescription is a drug that makes them really very ill should they take or drink anything on top of the drugs. The addiction services are supported by local pharmacies and the police.


A long article but worth reading if you are interested on the guidelines and targets Drug Action Teams (and this PCTs) are expected to reach... this includes reduction of drug related deaths, reduction of drug related crime and increased numbers of clients completing treatment programmes.

[craigie b]

I've first hand experience of these programs and they do not deal with the under lying issues surrounding a heroin addict.

For starters the doctor prescribes a drug that is significantly harder to come off of than heroin. Long term use screws junkies heads up far worse than heroin does.

Secondly, a heroin addict will only stop if they want to stop. Large numbers of these guys complete the methodine course and then become addicted again a few month down the line. Ultimately forcing people into rehab doesn't work because without a real want to quit the chances of falling of the wagon are very high.

Now here is the part which I do not get....why do we prescribe a drug that is worse and more addictive than the heroin to heroin addicts? And from personal experience, in my teens, I'd buy some methadone and one dose would keep me stoned/caned for at least two days. Its powerful stuff. I know doctors in Scotland who will no longer prescribe methadone because they do not believe it helps people.

[Annabella]

[killa]

[Annabella]