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FreshAL
Sir Crashalot



Joined: 04 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Terror alert level: irrational Reply with quote
Found this, thought it was spot on

Quote:

Terror alert level: irrational

Failure to estimate the risks of terror hobbles attempts to deal with it, says charles townshend


Terrorism has been around for a long time. We know what sorts of people adopt terrorism as a strategy and why. We know how it works and how long terrorist campaigns tend to last. We also know that no state has ever been overthrown by terrorism.

There is one mystery, however: why do people react to terrorism as irrationally as they do? Why are they alarmed to a degree far beyond any statistical risk it poses?

The problem starts at the top. Instead of trying to establish a rational assessment of the risk, the US and British governments have indulged in rank alarmism. To them - and most people seem to follow them - attempting to put things in proportion after a terrorist attack seems to be almost blasphemous. So terrorism suppresses logical public debate.

Consider the staggeringly costly and inconvenient security measures taken after the alert this August. Even if aircraft security was 100 per cent effective (which we know it cannot be), we might still wonder whether its stupendous ongoing cost is justifiable. Still, most people stand stoically in endless queues, seemingly regarding them as proof that they are safer. Would they accept any other public policy so uncritically?

Tony Blair's assertion that Islamist terrorism is a threat to our way of life went unchallenged for years, although as High Court judges eventually recognised, the terrorist threat is quite different from, say, the threatened German invasion in 1940.

In that case the suspension of civil liberties was acceptable, because Britain's independent existence was unmistakably in danger. And such real wars eventually come to an end, while the 'war on terror' can never end - there will always be terrorists.

So our loss of liberty will be permanent.

It is less terrorism than our response to it that represents a threat to our way of life


from https://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?menuID=1&subID=818
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techierob
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Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Re: Terror alert level: irrational Reply with quote
Quote:
We also know that no state has ever been overthrown by terrorism.


not too sure about that chunk of the article. Here's just a few examples of "terrorist" actions that managed to overthrow states:

- the russian revolution of february 1917
- the french revolution
- the cuban revolution
- the american "war of independence"
- the saur revolution in afghanistan
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Mister James
I want to believe!



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Re: Terror alert level: irrational Reply with quote
Quote:
We also know that no state has ever been overthrown by terrorism.


Well, when I lie a bleeding wreck in the middle of the next suicide attack on London, it'll be a great consolation to me and my family that they won't be over-throwing the state!

Loss of life and economic disruption is a compelling enough reason to take action against murderous muslim scum.

As to the Government's response to Terror being the real threat - bollocks. In my everyday life, I am inconvenienced and harrassed far more by laws and policies that have fuck all to do with anti-terror legislation.
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techierob
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Re: Terror alert level: irrational Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:

Those were revolutions.


true, but if a revolution doesn't overthrow the state, then it couldn't be called a revolution. It would just be an uprising.

Siggi wrote:

Revolution: The majority vs the state.
Terrorism: A minority vs the state.


that idea falls over on the afghan saur revolution. It's true for the russian february revolution, but definitely not true for the russian october revolution (the bolsheviks were a minority).
I quite like the idea of legitimising uprisings provided they have public support though Smile
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feef
Energiser Bunny



Joined: 11 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Re: Terror alert level: irrational Reply with quote
Mister James wrote:
Loss of life and economic disruption is a compelling enough reason to take action against murderous muslim scum.


exactly the point the author was making..

Does having to queue 4 times as long due to unreasonably, and irrationally strict security procedures actually take any action against them? Does it actually lessen the risk? it might make people feel better, and LOOK like something is being done, but in reality it's a waste of time.

Wouldn't it be ironic if the next suicide bomb goes off in a long queue of people who are all waiting patiently for the security checks that will protect them.

a
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Itchy
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Joined: 07 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Re: Terror alert level: irrational Reply with quote
techierob wrote:
that idea falls over on the afghan saur revolution. It's true for the russian february revolution, but definitely not true for the russian october revolution (the bolsheviks were a minority).
I quite like the idea of legitimising uprisings provided they have public support though Smile


yup on ballot papers for stagnant political systems like the UK we should have a none of the above box and also a bloody revolution box,

Even the Ancient Chinese could go on a bloody revolution when there was 'devine' signs say a particularly bad earth quake.


Either that or have an assassination market , read up the political implications on wiki.
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Mister James
I want to believe!



Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Re: Terror alert level: irrational Reply with quote
feef wrote:
Mister James wrote:
Loss of life and economic disruption is a compelling enough reason to take action against murderous muslim scum.


exactly the point the author was making..


No it wasn't, he took that one incident and then applied his spurious logic to the wider perspective.

It was nothing more than the standard anti-state article - in this case hoping to harness the annoyance of anyone caught in queues at Heathrow.

We'd all be braying like rabid donkeys if the government had hard intel and hadn't acted, but once again, the armchair warriors and their mighty hindsight-weapon are trying to turn a debatable state action into OMFGZ SI TEH 1984!!!111 BIG BROVA ANND HIS GOONS ARE WATCHIN YUO!!!1.
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craigie b
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Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, I suppose, if you believe terrorists are clever enough to develop liquid explosives and determined enough to kill themselves to cause maximum casualties then why are they as stupid as picked the high security areas.....

And to state for maximum exposure is bollocks, because Muslim terrorists have no qualms blowing up markets, civic functions etc in Afghanistan or Iraq. Why is it USA and UK terrorists are only happy if a plane is falling out of the sky? Surely low security targets such as sinking a cruise liner or blowing up a city center be a far more viable target.

Yeah, they determined and intelligent. Just lucky for us their not that intelligent.
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Mister James
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Joined: 10 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Re: Terror alert level: irrational Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:

Exactly James, that's what it's down to. I'm suprised at you, being so naive and ignorant of what this 'War On Terror' bullshit is really all about.


I repeat my theory that you are mistaken in your focus on the war and terrorism legislation.

Developments in, say, road policing are more wide-spread, wide-reaching and likely to affect the average joe on the street.

Registers 'to protect the children' are another example, as are unelected but all-powerful council officials.
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mr jamez
World Chat Champion



Joined: 04 Aug 2003
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 11 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm going to buy a lightning proof suit, more chance of getting killed by that than a terrorist. The governments reaction to Islamic terrorism is totally disproportionate. Something like 50 Britons have died since this all started around 10 years ago, "but think of what could happen" which is all well and good but when our lives become more difficult and entangled in government bureaucracy based on 'ifs' and 'buts' then I'll risk it thanks.

And yeah it probably is for their own gain, what government doesn't crave power? New Labour are blatently staunch authoritarians.
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pwntifex
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Joined: 23 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 12 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Is that a lizard-man I see?
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techierob
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Joined: 05 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 10:08 - 12 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
pwntifex wrote:
Is that a lizard-man I see?


heh. I'll always remember when david icke called a press conference in 1991 to announce that he was the son of god and was here to "save the world". Quite surprising really considering he was goalkeeper for coventry for three years and didn't manage to save a bloody thing
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Huambo81a
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 01:17 - 13 Oct 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Its just a part of labours incessant social engineering programme, very much like facism with smiles.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 19 years, 64 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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