The politics of 'Patch' clubs/MC/MCC's

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

Earlier on today, in another thread I made an absent minded mistake of referring to a motorcycle club with a stereotypical name as a 'Biker Gang'.

I was soon corrected, and I did think that I should have referred to it as an MCC after I had posted it.

This got me thinking however. I remember reading in an earlier thread on BCF that one should not insult a black patch motorcycle club. The implication being that members of said club may well take a dislike to it.

Now, having been duly corrected, I figured that this was to disassociate the motorcycle club from its violent stereotype. However, if this violent stereotype is so wrong, how come it would be a mistake to upset its members? In this case would it not be correct to refer to a black patch club as a "biker gang"? (on the basis that there were members willing to commit violence.)

Additionally, if the black patch club (originating with Sonny Barger's Hells Angels, one presumes) has now been taken over by these non violent people might it be considered a dilution of the original concept? If Black Patch clubs have put the stereotype behind them, then why do they need names such as 'Hells Satans' etc?

Could it be because the members are genuinely old softies, but actually like the idea of coming across as 'hard'?

In a recent Bike magazine article, Jeremy Clarkson commented that he thought there were two types of motorcyclist. One who is into motorcycles, and one who enjoys being a 'biker'. Would that then imply that members of black patch type clubs are into it for the camaraderie rather than because they are 'into' bikes?

I know how I feel on this, and that is I like motorcycles. I like everything about them. The technology, the performance, the engineering, and the feeling you get when you ride a fast (ish) one. The Cameraderie of being a motorcyclist is like an added bonus to me, and mainly comes from being a member of BCF which could be considered a community of its own. BCF is certainly not a black patch club.

Would anyone consider a Black Patch Club to be for 'bikers' rather than for people who are into bikes? Would anyone care to tell me how broken my legs are going to be for writing this?

For answers to these, and many more questions... Stay tuned to this thread!! Smile

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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

I've always considered patch clubs (MCs) to be criminal organisations.

Maybe ones with a nicer face than many, especially in the UK where I'm not massively aware of details of what they do.

These are the ones that would stereotypically referred to as a 'biker gang' - and I wouldn't expect all members to ride bikes either.

yambabe · World Chat Champion Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

There are currently several ongoing court cases Marjay (mostly in Canada and the US iirc) where clubs are contesting the authorities' description of them as a "gang", or more particularly as a criminal organisation.

This raises quite an important legal point.

The clubs maintain that they are an organisation that may contain some members with criminal records, rather than a criminal organisation which would automatically brand any member of the club a criminal.

Thinking about it logically, most clubs or associations that you can name (including I believe the US Senate, which has raised a few laughs for those following these debates) may contain members with criminal records. This does not make the club itself a criminal outfit.

So it's not really politics, it's more common sense in my opinion. Why should someone who has a completely clean criminal record, never even has d points on his licence, be denied entry to the US simply because he is a member of a certain club and other members of that club may have criminal records? Isn't that discrimination of the worst kind?

PS I think your legs are probably safe....... Wink

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MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

but there are 'nice' black patch clubs?

Otherwise there wouldn't have been the threads saying "Don't upset /certain/ members of black patch clubs.

My understanding is at this point that MC's are the bad ones and MCC's are the 'nice' ones... but do they not all come under the banner of patch clubs?
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

To Babyyam:

Do they not all have names such as 'Hells Satans' as already mentioned? I understand that they aren't criminal organisations as such (apart from maybe the Hells Angels started out that way).

Does that not make people think they might be a nasty organisation? Is that not the intention?

Because it seems to be a bit arse about face to call yourselves the Death Dealers or something then sue a newspaper for referring to you as a 'gang' because of the criminal implications? Weird innit?
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

yambabe · World Chat Champion Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

yambabe · World Chat Champion Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

yambabe · World Chat Champion Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Check the name first Marjay, or you might find some Butcher Bikers on your doorstep tomorrow and your legs definitely won't be safe....... Razz

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Sod falling in love, I wanna fall in chocolate. Very Happy

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

JonB · Afraid of Mileage Joined: 03 Jun 2004 Karma :

What is the difference between an MC and MCC?
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Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

dainesefreak · World Chat Champion Joined: 04 Apr 2003 Karma :

One is a Master of Ceremonies the other is a bike club. Shocked

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

My thoughts on that were:

MC Motorcycle Chapter

MCC Motor Cycle Club
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

G · The Voice of Reason Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :

Kick him off the team? Laughing

I'd be making sure he brings some along, presuming he’s happy to share Very Happy

.

Sadly anyone that’s going to win money would be in very different league and wouldn’t be passing it to me Sad

- don’t think they have a prize fund in BSB etc – and 90% of the riders at that level are still spending a hell of a lot more than they are getting back from racing.

However, I would suggest the analogy is flawed regardless of these semantics.

For a start, I believe that the main funding of the MCs that I’ve known about has been through criminal pursuits.
This I believe is from the top as well as the bottom, rather than just one section that others may not know about.

These leads to something along the following analogy:
Lets say the rider in question works with in a Breakers yard that I believe to make major use of stolen-to-order bikes.
Do I want him part of my team?
No, I don’t. I don’t think such things are morally right and would not want to be part of someone that supported their lifestyle through such means, even if it meant that I lost out financially due to legitimate reasons.

I don’t profess to know if my view of this is right, thus mentioning “suspect it’s justified” Smile

.
The big question is whether these are actually criminal organisations or organisations with criminals in.
The evidence I’ve seen suggests it’s generally the former.

Whether the less publicised MCs fall into this category is another matter; however I have to wonder why they work the way they do if it’s not the case for them.

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

I did think that Killa was the only MC on here though... Wink

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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

Whats a black patch club?

yambabe · World Chat Champion Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

ram_doom · World Chat Champion Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Karma :

Back patch you meant marjay?
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MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

hellkat · Super Spammer Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

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Not nearly as interesting in real life.

MarJay · But it's British! Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :

I'm fairly sure people have referred to patch clubs on here as 'black patch clubs'. Black patch, back patch... they both describe a deaths head on a black background embroidered patch which can be sewn onto a leather or denim waistcoat.

However if I've made a mistake then I'm not too annoyed because I've never had any dealings with these type of clubs so I wouldn't know.

Razz

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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Sure you're not getting 'back patch clubs' mixed up with the 'Black label society'? Laughing