Help & FAQs    Search BCF    Members    Groups    Events Calendar
Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Almax chains.

 Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Zimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 23:49 - 02 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not at all, I'm just saying you're not going to cut through it in five seconds, and backing my statement up with factual reasons why not.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

irving
Traffic Copper



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:00 - 03 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Arrow

Last edited by irving on 21:19 - 21 Jan 2007; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jonforth
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:14 - 03 Nov 2006    Post subject: Re: Almax chains. Reply with quote
Reppyboyo wrote:
Hi,

I would be shoving it in a back pack for the jorney, so the Series 4 looks waaaay too heavy to lug around, let alone on a bike.


Do not carry it in a back pack when riding your bike.

Can you imagine the mess that would make of you back is came off and fell on it?!

Doesnt bare thinking about!

Get a motrax chain carrier and strap it to pillion seat.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

edd
Nearly there...



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:12 - 03 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im sorry but you couldnt cut through an almax in 5 seconds no matter what you say. You couldnt cut through 16mm of mild steel in 5 seconds, never mind case hardened chain steel. Tests that are conducted on chains arent allowed to be just made up because they are carried out by independent investigators. £140 has nothing to do with it, the oxford monster padlock and chain is usually this if not more expensive. Alex on the almax stand last year (top bloke btw) showed me how an oxford monster chain can be cropped in 2 seconds (literally 2 seconds) by hand. Its not bollocks, they are seriously hard chains id trust my bike to one hands down.
____________________
Bluespark Automotive - Diesel Tuning for Performance and Economy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

mooky
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:37 - 03 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
irving wrote:
Post a vid? How would I do that then clever dick?


Dont get your panties in a bunch. I just thought you might still have the chain still laying around. You have the rest of the equipment...
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

irving
Traffic Copper



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:44 - 03 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
>>

Last edited by irving on 10:31 - 22 Jan 2007; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

0ddball
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Jul 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 15:18 - 03 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
irving wrote:
You ain't getting a superior product because you pay silly money. It is just clever marketing.


Is that based on your qualified proffesional opinion? Give it a rest ffs.

As in pretty much every other thread for the past month, you've got too much to say and you're saying it too loudly. Rolling Eyes
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

irving
Traffic Copper



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 16:12 - 03 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
>>

Last edited by irving on 10:36 - 22 Jan 2007; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

natv4
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 22:18 - 03 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almax chains were made to fill a gap in the market. Manufacturers have been making chains that are light enough to carry around but weaker because of it.

Almax decided to ignore weight and provide very stong chains.

Any chain can be broken. End of.

The important thing is with what noise and in what time; What it the point of using a chain if some chav scum could cut through it with simple bolt croppers?

You may as well leave a post it note saying please don't take me.

- Use as many security devices as you can afford.
- Take sensible steps to avoid an attack (bike cover?).
- Ensure that the devices you use are up to the job.

I can see no reason why you wouldn't spend £200 on a lock to secure your £3000+ bike at home.

irving wrote:
The padlock on my my friend's brand new and very epensive chain & lock combination decided it wouldn't open. My £25 grinder with a stainless cutting disc fitted went through the chain in about 5 seconds. Powered from a van via a DC AC inverter.
That means absolutely nothing unless you find out which chain. There are many chains which cost a lot, not many which are actually any good. The X-City is about that figure, and is designed to be light. I would imagine this would be the type you describe.

Sure power tools will go through just about anything, eventually, but how long and how much noise is fairly important.

Also you say your friend got his money back; I don't know of any vendor who offers a guarantee against power tools, why would they?

I don't work for Almax, or care particularly what people buy, but at least qualify what you post, it will help people whom actually wish to make a decision.

All the best.
____________________
Travelling around the world...a bit at a time. Where am I now? / Visit my BLOG
Bike: Blue Honda VFR800fi (*NEW*) Mileage: 22k Countries visited: GB/F/D/CZ/PL/E/I/B/A/HR/H/Rus/E/MA
West Europe...2004, East Europe...2005, Russia/France...2006, Morocco...2007
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

irving
Traffic Copper



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 22:38 - 03 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
>>

Last edited by irving on 10:31 - 22 Jan 2007; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

mooky
Nitrous Nuisance



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 02:53 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
irving wrote:
Say I had the chain. Why would I want to go to all that effort to prove it to you anyway? Because I care if you believe it or not? Not really!


All that effort? Well, it would only have taken you 5 seconds right? Wink
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Zanx
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 04:16 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've cut both the 16mm and 19mm Almax with a grinder and they both take significantly longer than 5 seconds (not that Irving is actually specifying what chain he cut) The composition of the steel makes it quite tricky and very harsh on cutting disks (the thin ones)

I've chopped more chains that most and have been stunned by the ease with which 90% of chains fall apart. You can spend £150 on an Oxford that lasts 3 seconds or £150 on an Almax that will break the cropper jaws. Choice is down to the individual.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

irving
Traffic Copper



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 10:01 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
>>

Last edited by irving on 10:31 - 22 Jan 2007; edited 2 times in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

irving
Traffic Copper



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 10:18 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
>>

Last edited by irving on 10:28 - 22 Jan 2007; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Zanx
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:08 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
irving wrote:
Zanx wrote:
I've cut both the 16mm and 19mm Almax with a grinder and they both take significantly longer than 5 seconds (not that Irving is actually specifying what chain he cut) The composition of the steel makes it quite tricky and very harsh on cutting disks (the thin ones)

I've chopped more chains that most and have been stunned by the ease with which 90% of chains fall apart. You can spend £150 on an Oxford that lasts 3 seconds or £150 on an Almax that will break the cropper jaws. Choice is down to the individual.


The 0.8mm stainless discs actually go through a lot easier. They cut as opposed to grinding. The wider the disc the more metal has to be removed.

Anyway, I am intrigued. So out of curiosity how long did it take you to get through the various different chains and what cutting equipment did you use? I am sure this is what people would really like to know rather than what is contained in all the advertising. Real life tests. What did you find?


Sure, let's start with the tool, 42" Irwin Record bolt croppers, not top secret and easily available. Next, let's discuss the chain. Most chains are simply re-branded generic chain from China, it's no coincidence that most Oxford chains look the same and share uncanny similarities with other brands. It's like oil, just because Halfords sell oil, it doesn't mean that there's a refinery in Saudi with Halfords on the side.



Oxford Monster 10 secs.
Oxford Boss up to 40 secs.
Oxford Magnum disc lock 8 secs.

Abus Granit City Black X Plus 10 secs
Abus Granit Extreme 40 secs
Abus generic padlock 15 seconds
Abus Granit Disc Lock 20 seconds

Squire MC4/6 chain 63 seconds

English Chain Superhex 12 secs
English Chain Superlink 26

All Motrax branded in under 30 secs.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Misc
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:15 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
When cutting a chain does it have to be flat on the ground?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Zanx
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:24 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Misc wrote:
When cutting a chain does it have to be flat on the ground?


Nope.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

irving
Traffic Copper



Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:46 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
>>

Last edited by irving on 10:27 - 22 Jan 2007; edited 1 time in total
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Zanx
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 18:57 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
irving wrote:
Zanx wrote:





Oxford Monster 10 secs.
Oxford Boss up to 40 secs.
Oxford Magnum disc lock 8 secs.

Abus Granit City Black X Plus 10 secs
Abus Granit Extreme 40 secs
Abus generic padlock 15 seconds
Abus Granit Disc Lock 20 seconds

Squire MC4/6 chain 63 seconds

English Chain Superhex 12 secs
English Chain Superlink 26

All Motrax branded in under 30 secs.




So these times are how long they took to cut using just an ordinary pair of Bolt Croppers?


Yep, 42" Records.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Phoenix
Twisted Firestarter



Joined: 01 Aug 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 20:53 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Although Almax Immobiliser chains seem to be the thickest around I don't for a second believe their rubbish about breaking bolt croppers and being uncroppable.

Does no one remember that the Oxford Monster was supposed to be uncroppable, end of, when in fact it turned out you could do it in 5 seconds...

I met one of the sales guys for Almax at a bikesafe show and he had samples of all the cut links from other chains and some almax chains hanging up, and a pair of bolt croppers. When I asked if I could have a go at cropping ONE link of the almax chain he refused. And nowhere on the net is there any evidence anyone has actually tried to crop one, just some rubbish about it didnt work and broke hydraulic croppers.

If anyones got an Almax Immobiliser chain and doesn't mind losing 1 small link off it then how about we try and crop it?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Zanx
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 21:17 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Phoenix wrote:
Although Almax Immobiliser chains seem to be the thickest around I don't for a second believe their rubbish about breaking bolt croppers and being uncroppable.

Does no one remember that the Oxford Monster was supposed to be uncroppable, end of, when in fact it turned out you could do it in 5 seconds...


I met one of the sales guys for Almax at a bikesafe show and he had samples of all the cut links from other chains and some almax chains hanging up, and a pair of bolt croppers. When I asked if I could have a go at cropping ONE link of the almax chain he refused. And nowhere on the net is there any evidence anyone has actually tried to crop one, just some rubbish about it didnt work and broke hydraulic croppers.

If anyones got an Almax Immobiliser chain and doesn't mind losing 1 small link off it then how about we try and crop it?


I have been to couple of shows with Almax so it may have been me you spoke to. Health and Safety regs prohibit members of the public from trying to crop chains. Cropper jaws cost £120 a pair, now do you think it's reasonable to break a £120 pair of cropper jaws every time someone demands that you try and crop somethng that can't be cropped? I personally broke a pair of cropper jaws at MCN hq in front of an Oxford rep, 2 Thatcham reps and someone from Motohaus as well as 2 MCN employees. It's not just the Almax that you can't crop, anything 16mm or over is pretty much cropper proof. Just because someone isn't willing to blow £120 on 60 seconds of entertainment it doesn't mean that there is something dishonest going on. If you want to buy a pair of Records and have a go, let me know, I'll send you a link that I ground off when Almax sent me a chain to test for them.

I gave a 16mm to a fireman friend of mine to cut with his jaws of life, they max out at 39 tonnes and they did manage to get though the Almax but only after bouncing off the limiter for a minute, the jaws also ended up with dents in as a result. I don't recall anyone ever saying that Oxfords were bolt cropper PROOF, just bolt cropper RESISTANT, there's a big difference.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

natv4
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 21:47 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Although Almax Immobiliser chains seem to be the thickest around I don't for a second believe their rubbish about breaking bolt croppers and being uncroppable.
I watched them prove it. Almax were at Ally Pally last year (or the year before, I forget). They had the chains from the latest Ride test. They allowed members of the public to come up and try cropping the chains (including their own). I watched as someone snapped the 2nd set of bolt croppers. It was quite impressive. They had another set that they said had broken earlier.

What was more interesting was that later on I heard that they had been told to cover the names of the other chains on test because Oxford had complained about unfair competition. They simply said, they would provide one of their chains free for the competition to do the same with. I don't believe there were any takers.
____________________
Travelling around the world...a bit at a time. Where am I now? / Visit my BLOG
Bike: Blue Honda VFR800fi (*NEW*) Mileage: 22k Countries visited: GB/F/D/CZ/PL/E/I/B/A/HR/H/Rus/E/MA
West Europe...2004, East Europe...2005, Russia/France...2006, Morocco...2007
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Zanx
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 21:58 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
natv4 wrote:
Quote:
Although Almax Immobiliser chains seem to be the thickest around I don't for a second believe their rubbish about breaking bolt croppers and being uncroppable.
I watched them prove it. Almax were at Ally Pally last year (or the year before, I forget). They had the chains from the latest Ride test. They allowed members of the public to come up and try cropping the chains (including their own). I watched as someone snapped the 2nd set of bolt croppers. It was quite impressive. They had another set that they said had broken earlier.

What was more interesting was that later on I heard that they had been told to cover the names of the other chains on test because Oxford had complained about unfair competition. They simply said, they would provide one of their chains free for the competition to do the same with. I don't believe there were any takers.


That was last year, I was there. Watching the Oxford cronies faces drop as they realised what was happening very publicly to their chains was hilarious, they even had little Oxford embroidered shirts Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Misc
World Chat Champion



Joined: 15 Aug 2005
Karma :
PostPosted: 22:00 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wouldn't of thought they were allowed to name the brands while destroying them like that. (Read it somewhere)
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Zanx
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 07 Jan 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 22:04 - 04 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Misc wrote:
I wouldn't of thought they were allowed to name the brands while destroying them like that. (Read it somewhere)


Well it was a bit naughty but there are quite a few people who still have their bikes as a result of seeing their security trashed.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 17 years, 176 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> General Bike Chat All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 2 of 5

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.13 Sec - Server Load: 0.86 - MySQL Queries: 16 - Page Size: 138.9 Kb