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DVLA are really starting to hate me now.

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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:21 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: DVLA are really starting to hate me now. Reply with quote

Especially after their humiliation in Clerkenwell County Court today. Wink
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Kwaks
I'm not a fast rider



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Tell us more Thumbs Up
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suggs
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 21 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 13:26 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah come on, you cant post a quote up like that then not give us the juicy details Cool
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locked
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

ooooo details please Mr. Green
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lozzypop1
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sickpup WON!






















DVLA Nil. Laughing
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Kwaks
I'm not a fast rider



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PostPosted: 13:51 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool I believe I know what it is now, if so that is a good win against them Thumbs Up
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Follow up to this?
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 14:15 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

So those low-life, lying, thieving scum got fvcked in the arse did they? Nice one. Thumbs Up Very Happy
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
Follow up to this?


Yes it is.

It will take a huge post to actually explain it all but basically I have been fighting DVLA for close on two years now concerning their failure to comply with the law. DVLA have won one case against me where I was actually refused a fair hearing, I paid off two claims against me as I was unable to complete paperwork in time but today I was fully prepared and ready to upset.

Todays hearing was held in Clerkenwell Court where a Judge backed me. The case got no further than whether or not I had sent in a SORN declaration, as DVLA couldn't prove I hadn't the case was thrown out although the Judge did give DVLA the right to appeal.

I will try and write out a full report a little later this evening to give all the details and explain how it applies to the SORN laws.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it's 2-1 to them at the moment, any more cases on the horizon?
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R4nger
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PostPosted: 14:47 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant! Laughing

Fair play to you for reading up and trying it. It really makes me feel that sickpup is this small person up against one of the many corrupted government organisations and has won against all odds. Thumbs Up
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skudd wrote:
So it's 2-1 to them at the moment, any more cases on the horizon?


Not quite.

Although they have beaten me in the past this over rules previous cases. I don't get any money back but they can't break the law any more so I win and everyone else gets to use the decisions I have won.
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Mr Hammers
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one, sickpup. I'm off now to build a shrine under the stairs dedicated exclusively to you. Thumbs UpWink
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 16:13 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gratz mate Thumbs Up
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Kaz96
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTG Sickpup Thumbs Up
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suggs
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 21 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 26 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice one mate
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Mark65
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clapping Clapping Well done sickpup
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tatters
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one Thumbs Up l hate the DVLA with passion Mad
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

I warn you this is hard going.

It's the next day and I must admit to being a bit low over it all. Although I won and DVLA will now be forced to follow the law a bit more I had evidence that they had been breaking the law for 5 years with these fines but wasn't able to use it as I beat them at the absolute first legal point.

The first point of my Defence was that DVLA cannot prove that I hadn't sent them a SORN declaration. As anyone who follows my legal lessons on here Wink knows one of my favourite Acts is Section 7 Interpretations act 1978 (IA78) which reads as follows...

Quote:
Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expression" give " or " send " or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.


So DVLA had to prove I had had no intention of sending the SORN declaration and that they hadn't received it, not an easy thing to do.

Over the last few months I've also been firing off Freedom of Information requests on little looked at but pertinent subjects. One of these concerned DVLA losing mail internally and can be seen in this link DVLA and internally lost mail.
Now it's not the easiest webpage to read but basically it comes down to DVLA are losing mail internally although they don't know how much as they only record it if you make a written complaint to the Chief Executive. If you complain on the phone they ignore the complaint and don't record it, an imaginative way of keeping the lost numbers down. In fact if you send them a SORN decleration by recorded delivery and they lose it you can phone them up, give them the tracking No and they will check the POD (proof of delivery) online, agree they received it then not record it as lost.

The woman representing the DVLA wasn't actually legally trained so when the Judge asked her about the act she replied with 'I don't know it' to which the judge pointed out that as it was part of my defence AND DVLA had a copy in their claims bundle maybe she should be at least conversant with it! as the woman stammered away again saying she wasn't legally trained the Judge offered her a half hour break to phone her superiors and seek clarification which she jumped at so a half hour break was called in the proceedings.

After the break we went back into the Courtroom to resume and the DVLA woman had a page of notes and triumphantly declared that the words used in one of the Schedules of the SORN act was 'Delivered' as in 'Delivered to the Secretary of state' and as delivered wasn't a word within IA78 that it couldn't apply. I pointed out to the Judge that yes 'Delivered' didn't appear in the act but the phrase 'whether the expression "serve" or the expression" give " or " send " or any other expression is used' did and I believed in encompassed any other word used, the Judge agreed with me.
The Judge checked the Encarta Encyclopaedia for the definition of the word 'Delivered' and concluded that under the definition I would have had to personally Deliver the SORN notification to Swansea. The Judge decided that this was a nonsense and that to require everyone in the UK to hand deliver all SORN notifications to Swansea would be ridiculous so ruled in my favour in this instance.
The Judge gave the woman from the DVLA several more chances to refute service of the notice but in my view she was well out of her depth, she just couldn't grasp the idea that she had to prove DVLA hadn't received the notification and eventually caved in at which point the Judge poured scorn upon DVLA's prosecution statement and it's attempts to curry favour with the court and pointed out that as this case was covered by civil procedure rules he had no discretion and he had to follow the law to the letter and as such after a finding of fact that I had sent the SORN notification that the case would be found in my favour. He suggested to the DVLA that they could of course appeal the decision but in a voice that rather suggested it would be a very bad idea.

This has been going on for 2 years now and in that time I've had a lot of help and support from forum members giving advice and proof reading legal arguments to make sure they make sense. I woud like to thank the following members for putting up with me in that time and giving advice. Lozzypop1, Kickstart, BlueX5, Tarmacsurfer, Robby, Queen of String. There are many others who have supported me who don't get mentioned Including WildGoose who supplied me with Paperwork that sadly I didn't get to use in Court but may just force DVLA to repay people some of their money. This case was only won because of the help people on BCF gave me.

Although I won in court I didn't get to hurt DVLA but I have opened a huge legal hole in their collection of SORN penalties so I have mixed feelings over the day. I won on a very simple point but if the case had gone further I could have done some real damage to them. In fact I sort of hope they do appeal as then the full cse will be heard.
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Alexio
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done sickpup Thumbs Up I wish I was more diligent. I had to pay those evil, evil people that £40 fine regarding SORN. That particular vehicle doesn't even exist any more, maybe except it's frame Confused
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done sickpup.

I hope they do appeal so that we can destroy the entire idea of SORN once and for all! Smile
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Valentino Mossy
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PostPosted: 20:25 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one pupski !!!!
Your my big scary idol, fella ! Thumbs Up Wink
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:50 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well-played Sickpup! Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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Fisty
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very well played sir, Thumbs Up Very Happy Thumbs Up
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Mister James
I want to believe!



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PostPosted: 21:27 - 27 Oct 2009    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicely done - I find it hard to believe that they felt humiliated though - only because I don't believe the agency has any shame at all!
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