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Shall we bomb 'em good? |
Yes |
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56% |
[ 26 ] |
No |
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43% |
[ 20 ] |
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Total Votes : 46 |
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DrSnoosnoo |
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DrSnoosnoo World Chat Champion
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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Posted: 09:54 - 26 Sep 2014 Post subject: |
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Numerous points:
Unless we are willing to occupy a country for 50+ years we should leave them completely alone.
Over time they will sort things out and find a balance of power of their own.
The half in half out approach does not really work as it leaves a power vacuum.
Case in point Japan, S Korea and Germany. These countries were occupied by the US military for 50 or so years, they are still to some extent under occupation. As a result a stable society came about from this occupation.
Look at China, they were left alone since 1949 and were isolated in 1955 when the USSR split with them. They made many mistakes, killed hundreds of millions of their own people. But after 35 years of mistakes they started changing things for the better living standards for many (but not all) increased.
Iran for the most part has been left alone since the 70s and they became a stable democracy though we don't like this as it is bad for our profits.
Finally the 'air strikes' and 'humanitarian aid ' are going to be used to topple Assad. ____________________ Spain 2008France 2007Big one 2009 We all die. The goal isn't to live forever, the goal is to create something that will. In the end, your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it is worth watching. |
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wr6133 |
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wr6133 World Chat Champion
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Stevie GooGs |
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Stevie GooGs World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Oct 2005 Karma :
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Posted: 10:37 - 26 Sep 2014 Post subject: |
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It is pointless....how will bombing people stop the problem, its going to put more fuel in the fire so to speak. Next we will see a photo/video of airstrike taking out civilians which will turn even more people against the west. ____________________ Current: 2019 Yamaha T7 -> 2015 KTM Superduke R | 2000 Yamaha R1 Past -> 2009 KTM 990 SM -> 2005 kawasaki ZX10r -> 2000 Honda CBR 600 FY -> 2002 Honda XLV 125 Varadero
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Stevie GooGs |
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Stevie GooGs World Chat Champion
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Itchy |
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Itchy Super Spammer
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moonzoomer |
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moonzoomer World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 11:01 - 26 Sep 2014 Post subject: Re: ISIS Airstrikes |
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snoosnoo wrote: | ISIS will use human shields from the planes, for definite. The second we're responsible for an innocent it'll be a drive for more idiotic youth to join them to fight against the west "who kill innocent muslims".
What do you think? |
That anyone pre-disposed to go on jihad will consider all "proper" Muslims as "innocent". Everything's a casus belli when your spellbook says so.
While our goals here are pretty much "drop bombs until the press find something else to yammer about", I don't think that supine appeasement of our in-country diversities is a winning long term strategy either.
I don't pay much attention to "the news", but when I saw a headline of Cameron bleating that we would "smash the Islamic State", I got a sudden, brief happy until I figured out that he was talking about a dozen sand-ninjas with AKs and cleavers. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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smegballs |
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smegballs World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 11:36 - 26 Sep 2014 Post subject: |
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I agree with Itchy, to do the job properly, they (the states) would need to go in with the gloves off and fuck shit up in a major fashion. There would be widespread destruction, loads of innocent folks would die and shit would probs get a lot worse before it gets better. Sadly that is what a proper war is like: fucking horrible.
Of course all that sort of stuff is long-term, most importantly over several election cycles. When your politicians are only concerned with the next 4 years, who will pass up the chance to use a war as ammo against the opposing party?
I think this is the view shared by lots of us troops (and ex-troops): "either let us go in with the gloves off and commit to a war properly or don't send us at all".
This post talks about it reasonable well I think:
https://www.oafnation.com/musings-of-a-grey-man/2014/9/18/slls-americas-modern-method-of-waging-war |
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wr6133 |
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wr6133 World Chat Champion
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DrSnoosnoo |
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DrSnoosnoo World Chat Champion
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Kris |
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Kris World Chat Champion
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Posted: 12:12 - 26 Sep 2014 Post subject: Re: ISIS Airstrikes |
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The Wobbly Orange |
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The Wobbly Orange Brolly Dolly
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RhynoCZ |
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RhynoCZ Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:17 - 26 Sep 2014 Post subject: |
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To all above,
I am a civilian person that gets only those informations, that people that rule this country, Europe, the world, give me via the internet and Tv. I've got no power or authority to get those informations otherwise.
I had 2 semesters of International law at the faculty, it was about wars and conflicts and international war crimes and so on = big players do whatever they want and history books are made so the next generation will feel proud about what has been done (USA, Israel, Russia, UK, Belgium, France and so on - all fake mostly at the: and the locals just moved or extinct part)
Anyway, for you, not Slavs, is this conflict somehow important. The only Tv news we get here about the situation are, that Obama decided to start the first wave = shooting Tomahawk rockets from 1000 miles away ships at basically random targets in the area. Or that the most modern fighter aircrafts (USAF) are shooting at ''what they've told us'' the ''enemy'' bases were. And I could go on.
About those executions, well, what to say really. There was this case of two Czech women who got kidnapped in the middle east, now no one heard of them a while. There were videos with holding the newspaper and reading the prepared text with gun to the head and so on. Who were those two women? I can tell you, they were stupid. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs told them not to go, the airline company told them not to go, and others told them not to go, that it was a dangerous area especially for white women. Did they listen? Apparently not. We are Czech republic, we don't bomb people just because of 2 citizens get missing in the area that was marked as not safe. Have you heard about the case? No you have not. Why? Because we are a no name country in the west of what people still call ex-soviet area and we don't have the power to enforce a thing. Our army only goes to those bombed out areas/countries to build roads, hospitals, schools and so on, and train local police to restore the order. A friend of mine, that's in the army, actually was in various places, to do such a work.
Anyway, back to the today's events, all the executed people were reporters and people that went to the area for some, for me incomprehensible, reason. I'm pretty sure their governments also told them not to go there. If they were soldiers then I'd understand, that they can get into captivity. It is their job to go to places that civilians would never go to. That's what's being a combatant is all about in terms of the international law. You know, it's nice that the western world obeys the rules it made itself, but those rules mean nothing to the middle eastern people, they don't even know them and they have never agreed to obey them.
TL; DR
So, I still say no to bombing. If it's necessary, send the infantry. The locals have AK-47's, that never hit the target twice, and some old modified cars. Is it really necessary to drop tons of freedom on them? For 'muricans, this must be the best video game ever, piloting drones from back home, shooting at defenceless people from jet fighters and 1000 miles away ships and so on. ____________________ '87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor |
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smegballs |
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smegballs World Chat Champion
Joined: 28 Oct 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 15:31 - 26 Sep 2014 Post subject: |
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RhynoCZ wrote: |
TL; DR
So, I still say no to bombing. If it's necessary, send the infantry. The locals have AK-47's, that never hit the target twice, and some old modified cars. Is it really necessary to drop tons of freedom on them? For 'muricans, this must be the best video game ever, piloting drones from back home, shooting at defenceless people from jet fighters and 1000 miles away ships and so on. |
ISIS actually have arty and tanks captured from the Iraqi army (who ran away like pussies without first destroying their equipment to prevent capture). These ISIS assets, while dangerous, will be almost impossible to replace and so airstriking them makes sense in that it will be long-term/permanently affecting the ISIS ability to fight.
Airstriking groups of "militants" such as in afghan or pakistan is dumb as like you say, they are just some dudes with AK's (which come ten-a-penny in the ME it seems). You are just causing a few casualties at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars. |
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_Chris_ |
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_Chris_ Nitrous Nuisance
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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oldpink |
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oldpink World Chat Champion
Joined: 02 Aug 2006 Karma :
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Posted: 16:51 - 26 Sep 2014 Post subject: |
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another 2 - 5 years of conflict costing Trillions that we can't afford
have they learned nothing from there past actions ____________________ I have become comfortably numb
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The Wobbly Orange |
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The Wobbly Orange Brolly Dolly
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The Wobbly Orange |
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The Wobbly Orange Brolly Dolly
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Im-a-Ridah |
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Im-a-Ridah World Chat Champion
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Boris the spider |
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Boris the spider Nearly there...
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oldpink |
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oldpink World Chat Champion
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Posted: 17:20 - 26 Sep 2014 Post subject: |
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No boots on the ground ??
Oh no combat troops on the ground
thats how Vietnam started ____________________ I have become comfortably numb
Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR |
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c_dug |
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c_dug Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 9 years, 262 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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