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Fat Angry Scotsman |
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Fat Angry Scotsman World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 Jan 2021 Karma :
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Posted: 15:19 - 16 May 2022 Post subject: Chinese Litre Bikes |
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Knowing BCF this will probably just be a target for scorn and ridicule but the company that makes my little 125cc seems to be planning on bringing out a 3 cylinder litre bike:
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news/2021/july/zontes-triples-to-come-in-650cc-and-1000cc-forms
https://www.bennetts.co.uk/-/media/bikesocial/2021-july-images/zontes-triples/zontes-triple-4.ashx?h=0&w=0&la=en&hash=05CA8E8CFA068DEB2CF77371EECAFB6D4ECF34EE
In defence of my little 125cc I've had it since November 2020 and I've put almost 6,000 miles on it. It's been used through two winters and apart from the niggles at the start with the oxygen sensor it's been really good and really reliable. I have not treated it kindly and during the winters I probably didn't wash it as often as I should have but it's still a good looking little bike. The front brake pulls nice, it has a nice and light clutch and goes through the gears without issue.
TL;DR - I am pleased with the quality and reliability of my little chink bike.
So that brings me on to the next point: are we going to see a wave of Chinese bikes in all the engine size classes? CFMoto already compete with race bikes and they offer a 4 year parts and labour warranty on their bikes when Honda only provide 2 years (then again Honda have more dealers so easier to get anything done). ____________________ PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U. |
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xX-Alex-Xx |
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xX-Alex-Xx World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Fat Angry Scotsman |
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Fat Angry Scotsman World Chat Champion
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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Robby |
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Robby Dirty Old Man
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Fat Angry Scotsman |
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Fat Angry Scotsman World Chat Champion
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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doggone |
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doggone World Chat Champion
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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xX-Alex-Xx |
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xX-Alex-Xx World Chat Champion
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Posted: 23:27 - 16 May 2022 Post subject: |
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I suspect a Chinese litre will be like a US gallon, ie, inferior.
Still, every time any manufacturing is outsourced to China they learn something and then sell it back. If they ever decide quality control is a thing they’ll clean up. |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 23:43 - 16 May 2022 Post subject: |
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Chinese bikes ARE inferior.
Here is the original speedo I removed from a 440cc+, 40 year old Japanese bike, a couple of days ago. So add 50-odd miles to the reading. That's 57K miles on a small, air-cooled twin which produces significantly more power than a larger-capacity 2022 Enfield that's trying to look just as old.
Today, I took this very same bike for a good thrash. I mean, a 90+mph in several places, country roads, thrash, where I was wondering when it would blow up (it didn't).
https://i.ibb.co/ZVc5jWV/original-speedo-small.png
The reputation of Japanese bikes is earned, as is that of Chinese bikes. No matter what anyone on Youtube says. |
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Fat Angry Scotsman |
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Fat Angry Scotsman World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 Jan 2021 Karma :
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Posted: 08:33 - 17 May 2022 Post subject: |
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ThunderGuts |
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ThunderGuts World Chat Champion
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Fat Angry Scotsman |
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Fat Angry Scotsman World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 Jan 2021 Karma :
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Posted: 13:06 - 17 May 2022 Post subject: |
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ThunderGuts wrote: | Chinese bikes do seem to be getting better; while I was having my MOT done the other day, the shop had a range of small-capacity Chinese bikes in which I was looking at to kill time. The fit and finish was much improved over what I remember them to be like. Traditionally the quality control issues stemmed from a reliance on human intervention and skill to ensure everything was excellent, this is where a relatively unskilled workforce would come unstuck. But with modern tech, it's much easier to ensure close tolerances from the outset. Yes, there are still discrepancies with material quality, but I suspect the gap between Chinese and Japanese bikes will continue to slowly close (probably won't ever close completely I suspect).
The problem is people quite often compare old(er) Japanese bikes (inevitably as they're likely to have racked up some miles) to new Chinese bikes, but I'm not sure Japanese bikes are as well made as they were (at least, the non-Japan built ones anyway). What would be really interesting would be for some real long term data (multiple years) of tough use, e.g. all year round commuting, of say a CB125F and a Chinese equivalent and see how they compare. |
I can only comment on what I have experienced first-hand and I have seen around and sat on brand a new Honda CB125R, MSX125 and Super Cub 125. In all honesty I have to say my Zontes is equal to the CB125R in quality and probably better than the MSX125. Sorry Honda boys and Chink haters but it's the truth in my observed opinion. I went with my ex to help her choose a bike after she did her CBT. She got the Super Cub 125 and I straight up that little thing is a gem.
Then again, the argument that quality varies wildly between Chinese manufacturers ... I think it's true. I have personally rode past two (and helped one) broken down Lexmoto bikes. ____________________ PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U. |
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Diggs |
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Diggs World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 13:28 - 17 May 2022 Post subject: |
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I can't see anywhere to put my sandwiches. ____________________ Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting... |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 15:03 - 17 May 2022 Post subject: |
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Robby wrote: | Personally, I don't see it selling well and I'll be surprised if they try...
I would not be queueing up to hand over a serious amount of money for their early experiments in the litre bike world. They don't have a great reputation for metallurgy, and that matters a lot more to me when the frame is having to handle 100hp+ and high speeds.
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This is my concern.. not so much fit and finish but this. My admittedly small experience with Chinese was that the quality of EVERTHING was inferior from seal materials to chromework and plastics. when the Japanese took over from Brit bikes the opposite was true as I understand it. ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Oct 2018 Karma :
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Posted: 15:13 - 17 May 2022 Post subject: |
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The only money in old Japanese bikes is Steptoe's money, i.e. keep a lot of old junk in your garden for decades, and sell it piece by piece as you get old. The days of doing that are numbered, as the world moves on to electric. There will always be a few diehard enthusiasts but it won't be what it was. The reason I'm mentioning this is because these Chinese litre bikes are appearing on the scene just as the big boys are bowing out. There is no chance of them being on the same level of quality in engineering and design (and manufacturing) as, say, a Z900, because no Chinese corporation has the sort of engineering and design expertise and resources of the likes of Yamaha and Kawasaki.
That's not the only issue. These bikes (Chinese ones) are current, and as they're new, there's money to be made from them, by just about everyone. Here on this forum, I assume most of us are just enthusiasts and hobbyists. We enjoy riding, and sometimes working on, or just admiring, bikes. Our very existence is utterly worthless and ridiculous to the following groups of people as a whole:
1) Young people
2) Mechanics
3) Bike and gear manufacturers
4) Youtube shills
5) Chinese
etc.
You get the picture. If you're a hobbyist you're seen as a dilettante and a jerk. The only time we have any value to these people is when we die and have an estate sale of our tools. The young are ambitious and want to make a career. Chinese bikes are a way to do this. Mechanics (and engineers, welders and all sorts of skilled tradespeople) want to make a living from their skills and see us as beer bellies with a wallet attached - they don't even like us (we're the jacks of all trades and masters of none). Chinese bikes help them out by facilitating the movement of money from us to them. Bike and gear manufacturers want to sell something and profit. Chinese bikes again. Youtube narcissists want to be current and have people send them free stuff, or just get views. Chinese bikes once more. Chinese... enough said.
That's why Japanese bikes... All the benefit is for the end user, at this point. Service them yourself. Get any style of bike you like. Low cost, high utility. No hangers-on like customisers, painters, "lifestyle" people, etc. However, I would still like an RPS Hawk 250 to mess about with. |
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Fat Angry Scotsman |
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Fat Angry Scotsman World Chat Champion
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slowasyoulike |
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slowasyoulike Scooby Slapper
Joined: 17 May 2021 Karma :
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xX-Alex-Xx |
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xX-Alex-Xx World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 Sep 2019 Karma :
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 1 year, 265 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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