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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 20:56 - 03 Feb 2024 Post subject: LED lighting flicker (WD forte?) |
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On my Minsk 125 which has a single phase 12V DC "charging" system with no battery. Standard reg/rec. LED bulbs throughout. The ignition system is totally seperate.
The lights have a barely perceptible flicker at idle. A much more noticeable one as you rev the engine up. I checked the output voltage and it was pretty much nailed to 14v. Analogue meter and the needle seemed steady. The taillight LED bulb popped (may be a red herring, it was a cheap and nasty amazon one)
I tried fitting a 4,700uf 50V capacitor paralell to the circuit. This seemed to make no difference.
I fitted an incandescent taillight bulb to see if it was actually a bad connection vibrating. This lit up normally and steadily AND the flicker on the other lights stopped.
I took the incandescent out (hot, hot hot!) and the flicker started again. If I sound the horn, the flicker stops.
It seems they flicker unless there is an added load in the circuit. The instrument panel lights do it too. Maybe the LEDs and lack of load are causing some funky effect with the reg/rec?
WD forte mentioned the capacitor may be a bit on the big side? Maybe fit a smaller one? I'm wondering what would be a good value if that is the case?
The simple solution would be to just use an incandescent taillight bulb, and this is what I'll do for the MOT. I'm just concerned the flicker might damage the other bulbs if the taillight isn't on.
Maybe fit a ballast resistor paralell to the capacitor?? ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Bhud |
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Bhud World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 22:01 - 03 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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It's got nothing odd in there. Output from the reg/rec goes straight to the main fuse and then the lighting. The only slightly odd thing is a couple of diodes so the single flasher tell-tale will work properly without lighting up both sets of flashers but that's only connected when the flashers are on.
The capacitor is connected where the battery would be. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 23:04 - 03 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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In general bigger capacitors dont react (charge/discharge) as fast as smaller ones so the 4700 may be a bit on the large side
its normal practise in power supplies to use smaller caps in parallel with a large one to smooth out higher frequencies
I used a 330uf electrolytic cap on the moby and it worked well enough considering the very spiky output from its single coil stator, but the guy took it away before I could fine tune it and hasn't complained since.
Had it lived here, I may have added/swapped caps to get a better smoother output.
Without seeing the output on a scope, its hard to say anything for sure but a smaller cap would be my first thing to try
and add say a 47uf/50v across the led power terminals?
To refresh my memeory i looked up the Moby experimends I did and
the spiky waveforms I had to deal with
This when i first started to try and improve the Moby
with moderate improvements
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=324407
Later when I went full retard on it and converted it to a 12v DC system with cdi ignition, note I only had one single poxy coil to play with for lights but the 330uf cap help a lot
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=334589 ____________________ bikers smell of wee |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 11:15 - 04 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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The kit is supposed to be used without a battery, these bikes never had one. I guess it's also supposed to be used with normal bulbs and I suspect it would have no issues if that was the case. I particularly wanted an LED headlamp just because they are so good compared to a 40W tungsten.
It's rated for 120W so I should have ample excess capacity. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 15:09 - 04 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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It also occurrs to me that the kit had a reg/rec with it that looks like one of the ebay Chinese ones but might also be Russian.
I wonder if fitting a mosfet based reg/rec would be a good plan? ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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slowasyoulike |
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slowasyoulike Scooby Slapper
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 01:39 - 06 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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I've decided the shit-can all the LED bulbs other than the headlamp. It's the only one that conferrs any significant advantage on this bike. It seems happy when the other bulbs are incandescents.
It's supposed to be a simple bike and I'm getting uncomfortable with the amount of electronics lurking about which are fixing a problem that needn't exist. There is more than adequate power output. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 11:25 - 06 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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Chaps, since I'm in the process of dicking about with my diminuitive 2T (GP100 disk front end transplant onto the A100.) I'm also on the LED trail. Thing is I'm fairly sure my lamp, 25W/25W, is currently 6V AC direct from a dedicated alternator coil - can anything be done there?
we may have been here before ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 12:03 - 06 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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A100man wrote: | Chaps, since I'm in the process of dicking about with my diminuitive 2T (GP100 disk front end transplant onto the A100.) I'm also on the LED trail. Thing is I'm fairly sure my lamp, 25W/25W, is currently 6V AC direct from a dedicated alternator coil - can anything be done there?
we may have been here before |
Does it have a battery?
At the simplest, I'd suggest LED on all bulbs including the headlamp is probably drawing less current than the normal incandescant side, tail and instrument panel lights.
They usually have a split lighting coil (there are loads of variations mind), so all the output goes to the battery except when the lights are on when it's split between the battery and lighting. So you could potentially just fit LEDs all round, wire the headlight up to work off the battery and forget about the AC side, blank it off.
Depends on the output from that coil, you could measure it, it won't be over 10A so you should be able to check using a normal multimeter (remember to swap the leads into the 10A socket). If it's more than your selected LEDs are going to draw, you're golden.
Did this on Mrs stinkwheels YB100 and also fitted an actual single phase reg/rec (C50 clone) instead of the crappy diode it had so it wasn't entirely relying on the battery for voltage regulation. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 12:47 - 06 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: |
Does it have a battery?
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Yeah a tiny one.
stinkwheel wrote: |
At the simplest, I'd suggest LED on all bulbs including the headlamp is probably drawing less current than the normal incandescant side, tail and instrument panel lights.
They usually have a split lighting coil (there are loads of variations mind), so all the output goes to the battery except when the lights are on when it's split between the battery and lighting. So you could potentially just fit LEDs all round, wire the headlight up to work off the battery and forget about the AC side, blank it off. |
That's the arrangement as far as I recall - two coils - one charges the battery via a single diode 'rectifier' with the battery used as a regulator of sorts. the oter operates the head and tail lights direct - which makes me wonder what AC voltage it's operating at when at full chat.
stinkwheel wrote: |
Depends on the output from that coil, you could measure it, it won't be over 10A so you should be able to check using a normal multimeter (remember to swap the leads into the 10A socket). If it's more than your selected LEDs are going to draw, you're golden. |
stinkwheel wrote: |
Did this on Mrs stinkwheels YB100 and also fitted an actual single phase reg/rec (C50 clone) instead of the crappy diode it had so it wasn't entirely relying on the battery for voltage regulation. |
They are virtually the same machine.. single phase reg/rec eh? Interesting.. I did 'convert' the GT 250 fromm a basic bridge rectifier only to rec/reg although that may have had more phases. I'll check out teh C50 option cos obvs a diode only is wasting 50% of the output ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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WD Forte |
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WD Forte World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 16:11 - 06 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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Given enough time and money you can convert anything to anything
but if its just a better headlight you want, perhaps checking out what's
available in the 6V AC/DC led range would show options
https://www.classiccarleds.co.uk/collections/6-volt-collection
If you want go full upgrade to a conventional 12v DC system with battery,
my advice would be to start a dedicated thread to avoid confusion
take good pics of the existing stator/generator plate
find wiring diagrams of the exisiting system then
plan the work and work the plan forwards from there. ____________________ bikers smell of wee |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 18:30 - 06 Feb 2024 Post subject: |
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Thanks - I think that was the stumbling block - no 6V AC LED in the right fitment. EDIT: found one! https://www.amazon.co.uk/Ruiandsion-P15D-25-3-Motorcycle-Replacement-Motorbike/dp/B0CP9559RM
WD Forte wrote: |
If you want go full upgrade to a conventional 12v DC system with battery,
my advice would be to start a dedicated thread to avoid confusion
take good pics of the existing stator/generator plate
find wiring diagrams of the exisiting system then
plan the work and work the plan forwards from there. |
Understood. I'll say TTFN. ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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