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mrchips
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Super Unleaded Reply with quote

I filled the bike today with £10 of BT Ultimate Unleaded at 103.9 a litre just to see if it would make any difference. I didn't really notice much difference, except to my wallet.
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Sephiroth
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's why I always fill up with the 93p stuff from Asda/Morrisons etc...

Wink.
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McGee
O RLY?



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PostPosted: 22:50 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always use super and I dont care who you are I can tell when cheap fuel has been put in my bike.

From smell and the way it runs Wink
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

doesn't that super stuff bugger some bikes? , something to do with the octane rating and knocking/ self ignition under pressure?
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mrchips
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PostPosted: 22:58 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know on high performance cars the higher octane makes a quite substantial difference but not sure about how it would effect a 60bhp bike.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Higher octane rating will not bugger the engine up (certainly not the tiny extra from super unleaded), but will on its own not give any more power at all.

Normally it will loose a tiny amount of power (insignificient with super unleaded, although start using avgas and you would really notice it).

All the best

Keith
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

When EVO tested the fuel on a standard Golf GTI, the super unleaded BP stuff produced an extra 15 hp over the supermarket cheap stuff on the dyno, and an extra 24 lb/ft of torque. It DOES make a difference. They also tested it on a BMW M5 and found that the beemer produced an extra 45 hp on the posh stuff, but torque remained the same. They were also fans of the new tesco 99 octane stuff.

Mcgee will experience a larger difference as American fuel ranges from 87 - 95 octane.
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Sephiroth
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 10p I'm saving, saves me a £1-ish when I fill tank up fully.

Every ten times I fill up, I save a £10er+, not bad eh Wink.
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cagiva gezzer
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put normal unleaded in my bike last week. Since i've played with the compression and squish it's only been run on super.

It didn't like it at all. Stutter stutter splutter. Thumbs Down
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrchips wrote:
I know on high performance cars the higher octane makes a quite substantial difference but not sure about how it would effect a 60bhp bike.


Only makes a difference if they can adjust the timing (small effect) or boost pressure (large effect, but only on turbo cars). Without doing those then it will have pretty much zero effect.

All the best

Keith
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 23:13 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

don;t cars and £££££ bikes have octane sensors on them to adjust the engine a little anyway?
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cagiva gezzer
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't we go over this every other month?
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

lilredmachine wrote:
Mcgee will experience a larger difference as American fuel ranges from 87 - 95 octane.


US octane ratings are different though. We use the RON figure, they use the average of the RON and MON figures. For the same fuel the US figure will be about 5 points lower than the one we use.

Really do not believe that figure for the Golf. No turbo I so only playing with the timing. 1.5hp would be closer what I would expect (and only then with a knock sensor to feed back to the ECU).

All the best

Keith
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Itchy wrote:
don;t cars and £££££ bikes have octane sensors on them to adjust the engine a little anyway?


Nope. A few high end ones have knock sensors. These are basically a microphone to detect knock. The ECU uses the readings from these to decide how to adjust the timing. Only really going to make much difference on a turbo engine where the boost can be adjusted.

All the best

Keith
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Robby
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 14 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

cagiva gezzer wrote:
Don't we go over this every other month?


Without fail. We've got more than a handful of posts in this one already though, and still haven't had a kiddie tell us his RS125 does 180mph on super.

I've been running the SV on super mostly, because it does feel a bit rougher around the 5500 rpm flat spot on normal stuff. Wouldn't bother with it if I rode enough for the fuel costs on the bike to be noticeable.

How long til we start having discussions about normal diesel and super diesel in our cars?
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lilredmachine
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the Golf was producing 200 hp on the dyno with the worst fuel. The test was carried out 50 times for each fuel on the same dyno for each car. Like it or not, that is what the difference averaged out at.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anyone know if a mid nineties MR2 Turbo has a clever enough ECU to work better with super?
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TheDonUK
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Super unleaded only benefits you if your engine runs a high compression ratio, I think its more psychological than anything else, you expect your bike to go faster because you have forked out, and as such you either ride it harder or dillude yourself into thinking it does...

Saying that maybe nice shiny bikes like litre gixxers/r1's would benefit, my 500 sure as hell doesent Razz
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edd
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

As others have said, if your bike runs fine on 95 ron, it will not gain any power from super unleaded. Contrary to what seems popular belief super unleaded is not more explosive, it just lifts the threshold for knocking. The only road car i have seen that needs to be run on super is my uncles homologation edition M3 GT2. The compression is too high to run on 95. Ive been in the car before when we were driving back from a Boro match. He ran out of fuel and had to fill up with 95 above like 2k it would knock and ping all over the place. Shocked
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MarkJ
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used Super Unleaded for a bit and didn't notice any difference at all, except for the price. No difference in MPG or anything.

I was recommended to use it because of the better cleaning agents in it, though. Is this true?
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 01:19 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

lilredmachine wrote:
Well, the Golf was producing 200 hp on the dyno with the worst fuel. The test was carried out 50 times for each fuel on the same dyno for each car. Like it or not, that is what the difference averaged out at.


Any chance of scanning the article (December 2005 it seems).

I really have trouble believing the figures. That is a 7% difference for a tiny increase in octane rating, which most ignition / injection systems cannot take advantage of.

Did find this:-

https://www.shell2004.com/2004%20Documents/sundaytimes/sunday_timesoptimax3oct04.htm

A 1hp gain on a dyno from using Optimax (pretty much within the margin for error on dyno runs).

Also this :-

https://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/non_broadcast/Adjudication+Details.htm?adjudication_id=37402

Which seems that the Advertising Standard Authority were not happy with Shells claims.

All the best

Keith
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DucatiEVO
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PostPosted: 09:28 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use super in everything (unless it's not on sale where I'm filling up). If I use normal unleaded everything feels 'flat', on super everything just feels a bit more responsive, not necessarily more powerful/faster.

Just my two cents. Thumbs Up

Smile
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edd
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 09:28 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do believe I saw a program (possibly 5th gear) where they tested a golf GTI, some normal hatchback, and an impreza. I remember it mostly because the dyno wasnt a rolling road, it bolted to the hubs?!?

Anyway i think the golf did make a suspiciously large gain in power, I suppose it could be a relatively decent gain if its retarded right back on 95 RON...who knows
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killa
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PostPosted: 09:52 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone who says Tesco/Morrisons is as good as BP ultimate unleaded etc is daft.
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eddthompson
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 15 Jun 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Does anyone know if a mid nineties MR2 Turbo has a clever enough ECU to work better with super?


funnily enuff, i used to have an mr2 turbo, no its not clever enuff, but since japan is used to higher octanes the car is often set up for them, on full acceleration on "normal" petrol i suffered knocking and now and then the stupid thing would go into safe mode and cut off the turbo.

When i switched to optimax, no more knocking, no more performance mind, got a few more miles on the tank though.

edd
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