Cornering

[LustyLew]

Hi guys (and girls),

This has probably been covered before, but I thought I'd see if anyone can help me out.

I have an SV650, and have been riding nearly 3 years with a full UK licence. i live in south London and ride into Zone 1 every day via camberwell/Elephant & Castle. THis is generally fine.

However, when I'm out at the weekend with mates riding I seem to lose all my confidence. I cna hammer along in a straight line fine, but so can everyone. But as soon as it comes to corners, I go to pieces.

I don't know what is stopping me, my bike is more than capable of being slung into corners, so it's got the be the rider! The only thing I can attribute it to is my last major 'off' which saw my old 500 twin being destroyed along with my leathers, helmet and pride. I was lucky to walk away, but it shook me up quite badly.

It's pretty much getting to the point where I dont enjoy social riding, which then asks the question is it cost effective to ride to work.

So, anyone out there... HELP!

Anyone know any good clear safe roads I can try to build up my confidence and cast a critical eye?

I think I need to start from scratch, positioning, couter-steering all that lark...

Sorry to waffle, but it's really bugging me now, especially with all this hot weather!
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[phantomtek]

Sometimes I am like this, slowing down very early for corners I put it down to being under stress to keep up with my mates and also twinned with being on unfamiliar roads that my state of mind changes and I don't ride as well.

They all ride higher powered bikes than me and it is a little annoying because they do make the utmost of efforts to let me catch up and some even bimble around so I can catch up, and then they call me a poor rider which I'm not they just don't seem to know that I ride alot better alone. I don't know why, it's just one of those things, I guess it's just the pressure catching up with me.

For example, I got my toe down (Big achievement for me on this bike) riding by myself because I can pace myself and get the corner just right and feel good, but riding with faster bikes knocks it all out of whack, maybe you are the same, twinned with the fact you fear coming off if you push it too hard.

Hope this helps

[doggone]

It would help you to get a grip on the counter steering principal.

[stinkwheel]

Probably know this already but hey, does no harm to go over it.

I would deal with your positioning first off. This lets you see where you are going and what the corner is doing.

Your confidence can only increase if you can see where you are going.

So, get over into the crown of the road as you approach a left hander and in next to the gutter as you approach a right hander. Straight away you can see 50-100 yards further down the road.

Ok, are you in the correct gear? Bet you aren't, change down one. The lower gear allows you to alter the bikes speed much more effectively by opening and closing the throttle. You are on a v-twin, you shouldn't really need to use the brakes much.

How tightly are you holding the bars? Too tight I bet. Relax, forearms paralell with the ground, flap your elbows loosely

Now, you're approaching the corner form the correct road position, you're relaxed, you've adjusted your speed using the throttle. Look up and ahead at the vanishing point. This'll tell you how tight the corner is and if it is starting to tighten up on you. If it is coming towards you, back off a bit, if it is going away from you, wind on.

If you look at the vanishing point, you will automatically head towards it without thinking.

Never mind countersteering, braking points and all that jazz, that's for later. If you approached it at the right speed, from the right position and looked ahead at the vanishing point, the bike will go round the corner as if by itself, nice and smooth. A good rider is a smooth rider.

[veeeffarr]

Stink:

I tend to find when I look at the vanishing point I get a bit disorientated when cars come the opposite way... Know how to remedy this?

[stinkwheel]

Don't look at them, look past them.

Easier said than done. Practice.

[lurker]

nicely put stinkwheel.
good to see someone posting with a positive piece of advice on here.

[veeeffarr]

[mad4it028]

i think your trying too hard just relax and let it all come naturaly
try not to think to hard about the courner
have faith in your tyres
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[mistergixer]

I've found recently that i ride a lot quicker if i forget about riding 'fast' and instead try to ride 'smooth'.
Less manic last minute throttle/steering/brake input gives a more settled bike and less of a 'panic state' mentality.
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[akaDAVE]

[NSR Mick]

Try a track day if you can afford it. You'll be practicing the same 10 or so corners all day.
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If you dont like the way that I ride.......Stop trying to keep up!!!

[finpos]

First thing I'd suggest to do is to go out and practice on your own for a bit, so that you don't feel under pressure to keep up with others.
In a group, I find the temptation is to try to make up time by throwing yourself into corners, and that is the very last thing you want.

As Mr. Wheel says, it's all about setting your self up for the properly. If you go in too fast, you'll constantly be trying to adjust your speed/steering/underpants mid-corner, and that does not make for a comfortable, confidence building ride.

Slowly into the corners, practice getting out neatly. Then, just as you get good at it - slow down. Because there's a tractor with a large agricultural implement hanging off the back just around that hedge.

finpos.

[killa]

I go through stages it seems, sometimes a little scare can alter how I ride for about a week!

Here’s my advice on the cornering confidence and lines.

Get to a road you know but perhaps struggle with sometimes, make sure you can see over the hedges/walls whatever so this is not much of a factor, and ride a pace you feel comfortable with.
From what you have described the bike IS capable of a lot more than you are doing, so you need to feel that.
On your twin, powering in a corner is going to sometimes give you a sense it’s not all quite there even though it is, because your lack of trust is affecting how you apply.

Get prepared for the corner, as Stink said, gently waft over to the opposite side of the lane, go into a gear higher than what is needed and drop the bike into the corner to what you think is doable, feel, that, grip.
You’ll need to be at the right speed for the corner doing this so you don’t touch any of the brake or the throttle to correct yourself, the judgement of speed for the corner is the most important factor here.

It’s basically coasting with a little engine tick over to steady you, I often find that once this is done and you know those tyres are sticking you start to realise you were being a bit silly. The smooth rolling of the entry gives you confidence the bike is planted and you’re able to do more.

I recently made a couple of mistakes in the country because I got a bit ballsy, one left hand bend I went round seemed from the outset to be reasonably hard so I required what I call ‘two cheeks’.
I hang off my bike more now because I built my confidence up doing the above, either shifting one or two bum cheeks off the bike. As I came around this corner she twisted back even more than I expected, in a panic I dabbed back brake and froze up, ending up on the other side of the road.
I needed to bank her in even more than I had done, and it was possible, you see if you ‘cook it’ as I say, you are pushing too hard, there is no need

So, once your line has been adjusted and your getting the closer to the walls of the tyre (don’t get cocky) the power needed to come out of the corner should be the next thing to sort out.

This time, go into the corner preparing as before but this time make sure the bike is slightly dragging (engine brake), I’m sure now the bike will feel even more on rails this time, so this allows you to look at the designated target and focus on the job at hand.
The throttle should be gradually brought on as you begin to level up. Remember, it is close to impossible to spin up the back wheel stood up so use that as a guide.

Counter steering is all bout the action and the speed of which you do it.
Some bikes offer the chance to really rag the handle bars and not give you any trouble flicking from left to right, but some bikes level up and make you feel like they don’t want to go over the other side too quickly.
This is something you have to deal with I’m afraid, I’ve never ridden an SV but I’ll advise you as if you were riding my Ninja….

Engine braking will steady the bike through counter steering, so again, the correct gear is essential.
I would say that most counter steering is done without thinking that much, so it is hard to describe, my Ninja helps me out TBH, I only need a slight shifting of weight and she levels up ready for me to drop her in again. I strongly advise no blipping the throttle to gain speed during the action, it can cause the back end to kick out which I have seen a couple of times.

You are now taking corners in a reasonable manner, you should know yourself how hard you should push.
On a side note, I am now taking some corners and not letting off the throttle completely, the weather at the moment means that a small % of throttle flowing through a corner actually pushes the bike down and makes for some great exiting.

Eventually you’ll see a pattern forming, the sound, the position and the feel all comes together, in the end you want to be concentrating on the key things that matter, not when the bike is going to drop.




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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 | Killas Biking History | Killas Gaming History | Killas autmotive history

[Spudgun]

Excellent tips!

[LustyLew]

Most definitely!

Thanks guys, as soon as I've got rid of this stinking cold, I'll be out there practicing.
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Like a Yorkie - I'm not for the girls

[NSR Mick]

[killa]

[NSR Mick]

Think about it, whilst leant over with the throttle shut the front will be loaded pushing it wide, trust me it's right.
____________________
If you dont like the way that I ride.......Stop trying to keep up!!!

[killa]

[Dark]

Excellent advise Stink! and Killa, gsxrmick is right.

Its called carrying neutral throttle or sometimes known as maintenance throttle and it ensures the balance of the bike is fairly evenly distributed between the front and rear wheels.

I'm currently teaching my mrs to ride and she can comfortably keep up with the lads i mainly ride with in just four months on a twenty year old £150 bike. As i told her its all about relaxing, lines, road positioning and observation, the rest will come naturally.

My mate on a TL1000S is having difficulty staying with her, they started learning how to really ride together, he seems to think too much about what hes doing and tenses up.

Once you relax and think less about what your doing but about where your going you'll find yourself riding smoother and it all starts to flow nicely and voila, all of a sudden your fast and confident.
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[killa]

[Orion]

Only one thing I'd add:

Once you are into the corner and get the throttle on...DON'T get of it. If you do it will start to unsettle the bike and load up the front forks...which can lead lots of pain.

The guys at the CSS go so far as to tell you even a neutral throttle is not a good idea - cornering reduces speed so a neutral throttle has the same effect as getting off.

No point going into too much detail, as you will already be overloaded with thoughts. Just get on the throttle and roll it on progressively (gentle as you like, but progressively). If you ever see the GP riders hands they move as little as a few degrees at a tiime, but they keep moving.

All said and done, the best bet is for someone experienced and local to you to give you some 'practical' help (or do a track/school day). Theory and words are great...but no substitute for hands on.

Good luck.

[stinkwheel]

Or to put it anotherway. "You can't lose the front end under power."

Carrying the veiled implication that you CAN lose the front end coming off power.

This is not true under absolutely all circumstances but it is true enough to be going on with for riding an SV650 on the road.

[Vincey B]

If it makes you feel better you're not the only one LH.

I origionally got a bike to to go in and out of Central London, and as I live nowhere near any country roads or anything even coming close when I go out for a blast on the weekend its usually around the same kind of city streets I would ride on during the week but with much less traffic to get in the way.

I did a Bikesafe a couple of months ago and was great at the city riding and filtering (which they do in the morning) but when we went out to the afternoon country riding I was completely left behind as I had just never practiced that before.

Have been reading the replies with interest!