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killa
Won't Shut Up
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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 Posted: 13:26 - 08 Aug 2006  Post subject: Galloway clears things up... |
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feef
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Spiral
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colin1
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| WildGoose |
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WildGoose
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Posted: 16:22 - 08 Aug 2006  Post subject: |
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i cant stand watching things like that, i've always hated news reports interviewing politicians, jeremy paxman is the worst, some consider it right that he interupts, but everyone knows politicians talk for fucking hours, so either dont let them on the show or let them finish
make me cringe watching them refuse to let each other speak, ignoring each others views, and coming out with random questions that dont lead on properly in view of the points made
and either "youve talked too long, so i have to interupt you, taking no regard of what youve just said" or "NO YOU ARENT GOING TO INTERUPT ME IM JUST GOING TO TALK LOUDER AND MORE AGGRESIVELY TILL I FINISH MY POINT"
"WELL IN THAT CASE I'LL JUST DO THE SAME BACK" and so it goes...
net result, an awkward unwatchable feature, where people get too caught up in arguing rather than making a valid point, and im sat watching it getting angry and made to feel awkward by the uncomfortable atmosphere on the tv 
anyone else get this? they are all arrogant stuck up idiots, often painful to listen to
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So in other words, he stopped you for being flagrantly in posession of a motorcycle in direct contravention of the Hippies, Darkies and People Whose Face I Don't Like The Look of (Police Powers) Act. 1976 |
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
I want to believe!
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| andrew |
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andrew
Mister Road Rage
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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andrew
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| colin1 |
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colin1
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Posted: 18:20 - 08 Aug 2006  Post subject: |
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| Mister James wrote: | but we do not agree that Israel should take all the blame, or that Hizbollah wouldn't be creating more Israel casulties if it were capable. |
I dont really see how you can say Israel isnt to blame. It has held Lebanese land since the 6 day war and refused to give it back. Why shouldnt the Lebanese fight back ?
Israel has just invaded more of Lebanon and has killed hundreds if not thousands of Lebanese people in comparison to Hezbollah killing a handful.
If France invaded Jersey and said it needed to control it for security reasons, England would be justified in killing frenchmen until they gave it back. If France then invaded mainland England to try to stop the attacks on French men, it wouldnt be England that was to blame, it would be France for invading in the first place.
When Paxman interrupts politicians its because he has a valid point. When lesser tv journalists interrupt, its just because they feel they are losing control and want to bring the discussion back to what they want to talk about.
She would interrupt Galloway, say a few halting hesistant comments, he would interrupt back, and she would lose her train of thought and at one point said the 'if you will let me finish' as though it were rude to interrupt when she had been doing it herself.
Galloway won on logic, and on rhetoric, but really they should have had a better journalist interviewing him as she was no match for him. This is what happens when you pick journalists purely on how they look and the sound of their voice.
If sky were only interested in propaganda they wouldnt have had him on in the first place, and if they have any interest in propaganda, they wont have him on again as he is too convincing at getting to the truth.
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
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| Posted: 18:54 - 08 Aug 2006 Post subject: |
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| Andrew wrote: | How can you say he didn't win the debate. Fair play he shouldn't have been raising his voice quite so much, but he had an answer for everything she said, all of which were pretty much correct.
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It's easy to have an answer for everything - it doesn't mean you have the right one. He put forward his opinions. Some of those are broadly accepted as the truth, others are pure speculation and froth. Galloway is widely agreed to be a master of the self-adulating soapbox, working himself up into a self-righteous frenzy - but he is simply a rhetorical bully, as we saw in this clip.
| Quote: |
dont really see how you can say Israel isnt to blame. It has held Lebanese land since the 6 day war and refused to give it back. Why shouldnt the Lebanese fight back ?
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Colin, the Lebanese aren't fighting anyone (which is why Israel's attacks are so wrong) Hizbollah are - a puppet organisation run by the Iranians.
We can go back and say that Israel started it by doing this, that or the other, but even if it is all 100% true, it is Hizbollah and Hamas who give the IDF attacks what little legitimacy they have by launching rocket attacks against residential areas. Israel then points to those and says that it is combating a credible threat to its civilian population.
It was Hizbollah actions against an Israeli patrol that sparked off these incursions into Lebannon - hardly the act of responsible political organisation, especially considering the suffering the Israelis are predictably inflicting on the Lebanese civilian population - who have little or no say in the matter.
In short, it certainly isn't all down to Israel, and it isn't as clear cut as you seem to think.
| Andrew wrote: |
After seeing that i have a lot more respect for George Galloway. |
Well allow me to retort!
I'm sorry, it's just so easy!
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>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you... |
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colin1
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| Posted: 19:26 - 08 Aug 2006 Post subject: |
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| Mister James wrote: | | Andrew wrote: | How can you say he didn't win the debate. Fair play he shouldn't have been raising his voice quite so much, but he had an answer for everything she said, all of which were pretty much correct.
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It's easy to have an answer for everything - it doesn't mean you have the right one. He put forward his opinions. Some of those are broadly accepted as the truth, others are pure speculation and froth. Galloway is widely agreed to be a master of the self-adulating soapbox, working himself up into a self-righteous frenzy - but he is simply a rhetorical bully, as we saw in this clip.
| Quote: |
dont really see how you can say Israel isnt to blame. It has held Lebanese land since the 6 day war and refused to give it back. Why shouldnt the Lebanese fight back ?
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Colin, the Lebanese aren't fighting anyone (which is why Israel's attacks are so wrong) Hizbollah are - a puppet organisation run by the Iranians.
We can go back and say that Israel started it by doing this, that or the other, but even if it is all 100% true, it is Hizbollah and Hamas who give the IDF attacks what little legitimacy they have by launching rocket attacks against residential areas. Israel then points to those and says that it is combating a credible threat to its civilian population.
It was Hizbollah actions against an Israeli patrol that sparked off these incursions into Lebannon - hardly the act of responsible political organisation, especially considering the suffering the Israelis are predictably inflicting on the Lebanese civilian population - who have little or no say in the matter.
In short, it certainly isn't all down to Israel, and it isn't as clear cut as you seem to think.
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oh yes it is
just because iran is supporting hezbollah doesnt mean that its not lebanese who are fighting the occupation, even if the lebanese government isnt.
america supports israel, why shouldnt iran support hezbollah ?
If someone were to steal from me, and I were to get revenge, and they then slaughtered my family, it wouldnt be my fault that they had slaughtered my family. Even if I shouldnt have gone for revenge as it resulted in my family dieing.
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Mister James
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| plugger147 |
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plugger147
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Mister James
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Mister James
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| Posted: 21:16 - 08 Aug 2006 Post subject: |
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I quote below the following from the Guardian comment section, (of all places!!) written by Harold Evans (voted greatest newspaper editor of all time in 2002 - profile here)
| Quote: | "We are all Hizbullah now," proclaimed one of the banners at the Stop the War coalition's London march. Really? Is it possible that more than one person has taken leave of their senses?
It was a sign either of profound ignorance or a depraved indifference to human life. Either way, the moral idiocy of the sentiment betrayed the higher purpose of the march.
If we are all Hizbullah now, who are we?
Are we the violent hijackers of the state of Lebanon who started this war without provocation and without reference to the elected government? Are we the "democrats" who hold hostages for years and murder political opponents?
Are we the suicide bombers, Hizbullah's contribution to civilization, randomly murdering innocents in the thousands - Muslims, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, for this cause or that, it makes no difference?
Are we Hassan Nasrullah, the latest pin up boy of terrorism, who competes with Iran's mad Mahmoud Ahmadinejad as the most dedicated to kill Jews? He makes no secret of Hizbullah's genocidal ambitions. "If they [the Jews] all gather in Israel," he says, "it will save us the trouble of going after them on a world wide basis." Big joke.
Are we the puppets of our paymasters in Iran?
Are we the cowards condemned as such by the UN humanitarian chief, Jan Egeland, for hiding our fighters and rocket launchers among women and children?
Are we not the cleverest of tacticians? If the human shield works, we are free to attack, and if it fails, Israel will bear the odium. What does it matter that our cruel deceit violates Article 58 of the Geneva Convention?
Are we the renegades who have for six years shown what we think of the Geneva Convention, international law (and UN resolution 1559) by regularly launching rockets across the border into Israel loaded with ball-bearings to shred human flesh. Yes, people died, six in a school bus, but they were only Jews and did you see the world take any notice? Nobody marched in London.
Are we the fiends who over two decades of Islamic terrorism have kidnapped, tortured and killed numerous peacekeepers?
Yes, we are all these things and we are Samir Kuntar.
Perhaps the London marchers do not know of Samir Kuntar. He is locked up in an Israeli prison. It was to secure his release by blackmail that Hizbullah guerillas crossed into Israel and kidnapped two Israelis, triggering the conflict. Samir Kuntar is emblematic of Hizbullah's values, their highest priority in any prisoner exchange, so let us hear about him from a woman who opposes his release. She is a social worker in Israel called Smadar Haran he met in 1979.
"It had been a peaceful Sabbath day. My husband Danny and I had picnicked with our little girls, Einat, 4, and Yael, 2, on the beach not far from our home in Naharyia, a city on the northern coast of Israel. Around midnight, we were asleep in our apartment when four terrorists from Lebanon landed in a rubber boat on the beach two blocks away.
"Gunfire and exploding grenades awakened us. Desperately we sought to hide. Danny helped our neighbour climb into a crawl space above our bedroom. I went in behind her with Yael in my arms. Then Danny grabbed Einat and was dashing out of the front door when the terrorists came crashing in. They held Danny and Einat while they searched for me and Yael.
"I will never forget the joy and the hatred in their voices as they swaggered about hunting for us, firing their guns and throwing grenades. I knew that if Yael cried out, the terrorists would toss a grenade into the crawl space, so I kept my hand over her mouth. As I lay there, I remembered my mother telling me how she had hidden from the Nazis during the Holocaust.
"The terrorists took Danny and Einat down to the beach. There, one of them shot Danny in front of Einat so that his death would be the last sight she would ever see. Then he smashed my little girl's skull in against a rocket with his rifle butt. That terrorist was Samir Kuntar. By the time we were rescued from the crawl space hours later, Yael, too, was dead. In trying to save all our lives I had smothered her"
We are all Hizbullah now. |
While I accept it is an editorial rather than an academic study, it raises a few valid points that blow any support for Hizbollah out of the water.
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colin1
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| Mister James |
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Mister James
I want to believe!
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| Posted: 22:28 - 08 Aug 2006 Post subject: |
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| colin1 wrote: |
I dont think Hezbollah could know that Israel was going to use the excuse of a kidnapped soldier for a heavy bombardment and general slaughter.
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Take care with such emotive language, a general slaughter would imply that Israel is carpet bombing every Lebanese city with the expressive goal of terminating as many Arabs as possible. Were that the case, the kill tally would be 100 times what it is. (that being an already unacceptably high figure)
I think that Hizbollah would certainly have known that Israel would carry out these retaliatory attacks - they have orchestrated this campaign perfectly so far, which smacks of excellent planning and intelligence.
| Quote: |
So do you think that when Hitler invaded Germany, the French resistance should have not put up any resistance due to the reprisals against civilians by the nazis ?
ludicrous |
Your comparison certainly is.
Leaving aside the fact you have put huge swathes of Arab-Israeli history to one side, we'll accept that Israel/Lebanon is IDENTICAL to Nazis vs. France.
If the French resistance chose to aim and fire missiles at civilian targets in Germany, knowing that it would have no effect on the German war effort but invite massive (and historically inevitable) retaliation, they would be fools who would share the responsibility for the innocent deaths.
Allow me to riposte with another fantastic analogy.
The traffic lights are red, and the green man is lit. You can see a car speeding towards you, and it is obvious he doesn't intend to stop.
You shove your 2 year old kid into the road and tell him to run, while you run yourself, knowing that you will make it to safety while they will not.
It may be the driver who kills your child because he wouldn't stop, but you are just as guilty by recklessly endangering the little blighter, knowing the likely outcome.
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Didge
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colin1
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Didge
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Spiral
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Fortuna
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thinkingabout...
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| Rookie |
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Rookie
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| Posted: 22:31 - 09 Aug 2006 Post subject: |
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I think he's a legend. I don't give a crap about his political views, but my God it's refreshing to not see a politician licking the media's ringpiece. When he started ranting and raving about Rupert Murdoch I laughed out loud. |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 19 years, 43 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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