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this guy runs a cb250 on vegetable oil

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colin1
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 27 Aug 2006    Post subject: this guy runs a cb250 on vegetable oil Reply with quote

https://ratbike.org/docs/616.php

this seems odd to me as i thought only diesel engines could run on vegetable oil

what does he mean 10 to one ? is he using 10 part veg oil to one part white spirit or something ?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 27 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's mixing it with the petrol in a 10:1 ratio.

Probably not recommended in the normal course of things.

I know someone who has run his MZ 2-stroke on a variety of fuels, including White spirit, BBQ lighter fluid and 50:50 meths and petrol. He has an SU carb fitted with a lever on the bars to adjust the main jet on the fly.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 27 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
He's mixing it with the petrol in a 10:1 ratio.



is that 10 petrol to 1 oil, or 10 oil to 1 petrol ?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:57 - 27 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good question. Given how he only has a 2l bottle of vegetable oil, I would guess at 10 parts petrol to 1 part oil.
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colin1
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 27 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

in that case, i wdnt be surprised if the oil isnt really helping and is more hindering, but i guess if his mpg doesnt drop, its working. I wonder if he has made a note to check.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 27 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that "Honest Johns 250 superdream - he runs it on veggie oil"

Perhaps he should think about changing his name to "Dishonest John" Very Happy
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 27 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

colin1 wrote:
in that case, i wdnt be surprised if the oil isnt really helping and is more hindering, but i guess if his mpg doesnt drop, its working. I wonder if he has made a note to check.


I suspect he just does it for the smell and clouds of smoke to be honest, regardless of what he claims.
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Rob W
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 27 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geri wrote:
I like that "Honest Johns 250 superdream - he runs it on veggie oil"

Perhaps he should think about changing his name to "Dishonest John" Very Happy


LOL, true.

"I put 26ml of vegetable oil in my bike when I fill up, that means it runs on that alone".
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colin1
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 27 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

I suspect he just does it for the smell and clouds of smoke to be honest, regardless of what he claims.


ah yes for that rat bike chic effect

i think some rat bikers are just as tarty as blokes who like polish and cleaning materials, they are just a little more eccentric.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 10:12 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems a bit unbelievable really.
You can add a percentage of cooking oil to older diesel engine's fuel (not high tech new ones, will soon cause probs without being set up for it)
For petrol you can add ethanol which can be produced from starchy material such as wheat and maize.
In the US this is quite widespread as ethanol can be made from maize which is for any reason unsuitable for feed, e.g storm damaged.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not as impossable as it sounds. I had an old russian 2-stroke that ran on 20:1 premix petrol and 30wt engine oil quite happily. It would in theory have been able to run on the same mixture of vegetable oil.

I know a couple of people who use veggie oil instead of 2-stroke oil so there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to run a 4-stroke on pre-mix. The inside of your engine would land up like a tar pit so you'd probably need a hotter plug, but you'd never need to replace a rusty exhaust.
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NinjaBoy
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
I know someone who has run his MZ 2-stroke on a variety of fuels, including White spirit, BBQ lighter fluid and 50:50 meths and petrol.

Maybe he should use Methanol Very Happy I hear that's good

NOTE: Do NOT use Methanol - he will (most probably) die
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extreme3d
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaBoy wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
I know someone who has run his MZ 2-stroke on a variety of fuels, including White spirit, BBQ lighter fluid and 50:50 meths and petrol.

Maybe he should use Methanol Very Happy I hear that's good

NOTE: Do NOT use Methanol - he will (most probably) die


Well why not, lots of sports already use it a the main fuel, Indy car racing and radio control models as the first examples i can think of. Besides meths is methanol anyway (just dyed purple with some other additives to improve it's smell and ensure it burns with a blue flame (methanol burns clear so is quite dangerous as a result if you are camping etc).

It doesn't hold nearly as much energy as petrol so he wouldn't die unless he tried to drink it (well he would go blind first), but then the same lethatality could be applied to petrol Wink
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Squiffy_The_Wombat
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

extreme3d wrote:
Indy car racing and radio control models as the first examples i can think of.


There was a thread about some idiot putting RC fuel into his bike a couple of weeks back. A highly entertaining thread as i remmber! I would find the link but im a lazy bastard!
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago my brother put R/C plane fuel with 10% nitromethane in a tomos moped. It went well but not far (only took him 20 minutes to push it back). We had to remove the cylinder head because the plug wouldn't come out.
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Squiffy_The_Wombat
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geri wrote:
Years ago my brother put R/C plane fuel with 10% nitromethane in a tomos moped. It went well but not far (only took him 20 minutes to push it back). We had to remove the cylinder head because the plug wouldn't come out.


There was a video a few years ago of some dude putting aeroplane fuel in this moped, it went like shit off a shovel for a few hundrads yards till it exploded. The engine was literally glowing red hot!
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Robby
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always wonder about these stories about aeroplane fuel.

Avgas 100LL is just a 100 octane leaded fuel, like decent petrol. Most planes that run on avgas will run on normal unleaded petrol.

Jet planes run on Jet-A, which is basically kerosene, similar to diesel. Diesel engined piston aircraft also use Jet-A.

Aeroplane fuel is not some mythically powerful explosive magic fuel. Its just like the fuels you buy at a filling station.
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extreme3d
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

robby wrote:
Aeroplane fuel is not some mythically powerful explosive magic fuel. Its just like the fuels you buy at a filling station.


I know what you mean - it's probably just bravado talk made by people who like to sound like they know what they are talking about when presented with someone who clearly does.

Like you say Jet fuel is kerosene which also has the name paraffin - It's heavy, smelly and the same stuff you clean your chain with Wink

If you wish to put that in your petrol tank go ahead...
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nrml76
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PostPosted: 19:03 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew someone who used to run his Jawa on a mixture of diesel or kerosine (whichever was at hand) with petrol. I dont know what ratio. He used to get excellent mileage, but acceleration was very poor and it was very smoky and smelt strange.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 19:03 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back then R/C model airplane fuel was a mix of castor oil, methanol and nitromethane. I think mostly it's synthetic these days without the castor oil.
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NinjaBoy
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

extreme3d wrote:
Well why not, lots of sports already use it a the main fuel, Indy car racing

Calculated by professionals - I don't know but I'm guessing stickwheels mate isn't a pro - so if he gets the ratios wrong he's really screwed Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaBoy wrote:

Calculated by professionals - I don't know but I'm guessing stickwheels mate isn't a pro - so if he gets the ratios wrong he's really screwed Laughing


Aye, but that's the clever bit. He has an SU carburettor on the bike which has an infinately variable main jet. He's hooked the jet adjuster to a lever on the bars so he can adjust the fuel:air mix as he's riding to suit whatever fuel he is using. This is perfectly do-able if you have the ear for it.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 20:02 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Biggest problem with methanol is that it burns with a clear flame, so the first you know about being on fire is the pain. And it is a cumulative poison, which can be absorbed through the skin.

Other problem is that it has a FAR lower energy content than petrol so you need one hell of a lot more of it. You need roughly twice the volume of it compared to petrol for the same amount of energy. Plus point is that it has a very high octane rating so you can put the compression through the roof (although you are then running into the possibility of getting a hydraulic lock in the cylinder).

All the best

Keith
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binge
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PostPosted: 20:15 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to put a dribble of Castrol R motor oil In with petrol on my old Honda XL125. It didnt affect the running, but it did smell BLOODY nice! Cool

As for running a scooter off RC car fuel. I persoanlly dont believe it because its not a flamable substance like petrol it. It ignites under compression (like a 2 stroke deisel engine).

<|Ben|>
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 28 Aug 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote

binge wrote:

As for running a scooter off RC car fuel. I persoanlly dont believe it because its not a flamable substance like petrol it. It ignites under compression (like a 2 stroke deisel engine).

<|Ben|>


Not a flammable substance? Laughing

It's nitromethylene and methanol. The stuff is bordering on being an explosive.

It's what they runtop-fuel dragsters on
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