welders, give me the lowdown???

[xxxrated]

will be in the market for a welder in the coming weeks, preferably compact(ish) and the cheaper the better.
ive been having a look round and there seems to be 3 main types, tig/mig/arc with mig supposedly being the easiest to learn on. according to a few articles ive read the mig seems to be the easiest to pick up and work with but does this mean its also the least effective welder so to speak???
what welder to you recommened for basically any type of automotive welding whether it be making a bracket up or knocking a frame up for a buggy. and alos which are know to be the cheaper of the bunch??

[stinkwheel]

I'm not an expert welder, but you should be able to do most things with MIG. Trouble is, cheap MIG welders aren't very powerful so you will struggle with structural stuff.

Stick is good for heavy duty welding but is trickier and messier. It is a lot cheaper to buy a stick set though and no gas to source

TIG is similar to MIG, just uses a different gas (put simply). You can weld stainless and alloy using TIG but it is difficult.

Two sorts you didn't mention.

Gassless MIG. Uses (expensive) flux-cored wire so no need for gas bottles. There are quite a few cheap ones on the market. I had one, it was fairly simple to use but only for light stuff (like a luggage rack made of flat bar). You do gewt a fair bit of spatter with it but nowhere near as much as with a stick welder. Mine was a cheap Taiwanese made one, the wire feed motor caught fire after a while and fucked it.

Gas welding. Old fashioned, tricky, but very good. The setup is reasonably cheap but you need to source the gasses and it isa apparently the trickiest one to master (although when you have, you can weld nearly anything).

Having asked a similar question myself, the consensus seems to be to get the most powerfull MIG set you can afford.

The other consensus seemed to be that enrolling yourself in a night class is well worthwhile. You can use their (expensive) kit, work on your own projects using a full machine shop and come out at the end with an NVQ in welding.

Another thing I would say is to budget for an auto-darkening welding mask. This means you can see what you are doing and leaves both hands free to steady the nozzle. My welding improved markedly after I bought one.

[0ddball]

Forget the arc, that is almost useless for automotive work. It's generally more suited to industrial fabrication, big metal gates, railings ect.

Tig is the best and the easiest to get a nice looking weld with, once you have the knack. Cheap kits are crap and the decent ones are a bit out of the price range of most occasional users.

A 150A mig welder with variable wire speed and amperage will be fine for home use. Standard model is usually fine for the odd job, turbo models have a cooling fan and are better for more intense useage. Forget the crappy little gas bottles, they cost a tenner and last 5 mins, rent a big bottle from your local gas suppliers.

[xxxrated]

cheers for the advice, im starting uni next month so should hopefully get a lot of hands on useage with 1 and instructions on how to do it properly but theres so many things id like to do at home but cant as i dont have the resources.
the gas bottles shouldnt be a problem either as ill be able to order them through my grandads work which should save a further few pennies.
what would you classify as reasonably priced and are there any makes you can recommend in that price bracket??

[xxxrated]

is this the sort of thing i should be looking at:

https://www.welddirect.co.uk/welding_info.php/products_id/130

[Ichy]

Its worth buying an arc welder at some point in the future. Good for heavy duty fabrication but more importantly with a carbon arc kit you can use it for cutting/melting or heating up metal, and brazing.

Yep, thats the sort of MIG welder your looking for.

If you get the chance have a go at TIG otherwise known as GTAW welding, its beautiful. Different process to MIG in that it uses an arc and a filler rod, its the best cosmetic finish you can expect.
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[Pete.]

That sealey looks like an ok beginner set. At £300 you're not breaking the bank. You can easily weld stainless with a mig, just change the wire reel. Same gas for mig welding both mild steel and stainless steel (argoshield if you go for BOC) I bought a small reel of 316 stainless wire for a tenner.

I think there's two main suppliers of gas for welding - BOC and Air products. I use BOC for my mig gas but I'm thinking of switching to Air Products. BOC now charge £9 for the priveledge of visiting their depots for a replacement bottle (or £22 to deliver) - on top of the price. I think it's taking the right piss.

Air products do a neat bottle - each one has a built-in regulator, so you don't have to worry about you regulator working right or not sealing properly and wasting all your gas (and if you use it in industry getting it tested every year).

Make sure you factor-in the cost of the gas. I opened a BOC account, rented a bottle for a year, went and picked it up and it came to 90-something quid with the vat. Refills for argoshield (for the half-size bottle you need) are about £22 +vat (plus your 9 quid for going there).

(All these prices are ball-park BTW just working from memory from the start of the year)

[Pete.]

BTW here is a good site for all your welding questions (and there's a guy on there selling a used scratch-start inverter tig for £350 right now):

https://www.ukwelder.com/forum/

[Jebus]

Ok something that i can do, i am at college doing welding so i can help you out on this one.
gas welding is very very similar to tig so very hard to master and a lot more messing around with stuff on that as well so dont bother with that.

get a good mig machine and all your safety equipment then go to your local techy college and do a few evning classes they will help you loads. get a sheet or 2 of metal and start cutting it up and pratcing various joins and settings untill you are happy that its a strong weld with little or no defects, get a mate or somebody that knows they are doing to give it a look over if they give the thumbs up your fine.

Get a book on mig welding so you get an idea of the basics and whats what.

i am on msn at engbiker@hotmail.co.uk if you want to ask me anything and i will help as best i can.
Ok mig is easy and unless you useing metal over 5/6mm a lot then stick with this, get a decent one and use an industrial bottle, not the stupid dispoaable ones. this is the weakest type of welding but its still very strong

Stick is harder but is more usefull if you gotta weld outside, and you dont have to mess around with as many setting just set your amps and off you go, but this dont like low amps so thin metal is hard to weld with this so keep it away unless you good with it.

Tig, forgot getting one of these as your first venture into welding it is very hard to get a go at and all the stuff is more expensive to buy and unless you are doing some serious stuff its not worth it.

Gasless mig is crap dont bother with it and that is advice from the very experience people at college so i trust them
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2nd time around CBT: 8/9/11
125 Varadero

[KatOwner]

I got myself a MIG a few years back and never regretted it. It was a necessary purchase since the wife was driving a VW Beetle. I got ripped off on the first welding job I paid for...so I bought the MIG instead, and it was perfect for bodywork on the Bug. Has come in handy since, patching up rusty seat bases, making brackets, and such like. It won't handle thick steel, but for tube and sheet, it is easy. Mine has a non-live torch....which I find REALLY handy! It won't spark until you hit the button.

For the first few tries, I kept letting the tip get too close to the work and welded the wire to the nozzle! Get some scrap steel and practice. It's really easy to pick up I never did get the hang of stick welding though....

[Ichy]

[Jebus]

oh sorry i wasnt disagreing with what you were saying, if you got the time and cash to have a go at tig then do it, it is a far better welding technique but it just take a lot of getting used to geting both hands working together and same with gas, once you get the nack you fine its just getting the nack that takes the time, i suggest mig as for the most part it is going to be fine unless you are doing serious stuff.

Them things that you can use for arc on thin stuff is a diode pack i think dont have them at college but ive seen them advertised.

Mig is best to start with and since you wont be doing this all the time its proberly the best overall.

gas welding if you are good at it a great thing to have and all you need is a cutting torch and can cut stuff up as well, and u agree with you welding and oxy fuel cutting is very relaxing
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2nd time around CBT: 8/9/11
125 Varadero

[stevo as b4]

Ive had very little experience of welding of any type really. But i have used both an Arc welder and an Oxy/Acetylene Gas kit, a few times, which my dad used to use for most welding jobs.

I found that Arc welding is after a while fairly easy to get used of, but like people have said it's very hard to weld thin material, and thus it has limitations for home use, and general welding applications. If your welding together thick steel tubing, or plate steel, (scaffolding for example) then it's very good, despite looking quite messy.

Gas welding i feel is quite awkward, tricky and possibly one of the most dangerous types of welding too. My dad used to gas weld all the time on old cars, but TBH i don't think you want to be having a naked flame, around alot of places when working on a vehicle. I found Brazing to be quite easy, and you can join thin steel tube and bar quite easily and quickly this way, but it's not as strong as a welding however.

If your starting to learn to weld, then i would think a decent MIG kit is the best way to go. This has to be the best and most versatile method of welding for domestic and general use. It's also something that i would really like to learn myself, so i might look into doing a course if they are available in my area.

[Jebus]

When you get good at arc the slag dont stick to the weld at all it lifts right off the weld at end of welding you get a stick of slag sticking up or it just brushes off the weld. and you can get very nice looking welding with arc it just takes pratice tig looks the best but arc is nice as well its just mig that looks a bit rough untill it cleaned up.

Mig is the main form of welding for most stuff in industy untill its get to really thick stuff and other metals

You do want to get a auto dark helmet useing mig is annoying with a normal one i am poor tho so useing normal one so it can be done just be careful
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2nd time around CBT: 8/9/11
125 Varadero

[JpWard]

I vote ac/dc TIG with remote lead

mainly as you can do aluminium well, when you learn the trade a bit cos its a bitch to do! But a decent tig will do all and is also the tidy'st. Enrol in an evening college course in welding will be very useful and shouldnt cost that much