Bring home our troops

[Mister James]

[zaknafien]

[Mister James]

I'll repeat it then - never let it be said that conservatives weren't ready to lend a hand to their lefty/liberal brothers!

America (and Britain) by their actions may well have created an environment where such atrocities could take place, but that does not then follow that they are responsible. There are no Americans with their guns to Iraqi militants' heads saying "SHOOT PEOPLE! BUTCHER YOUR COMPATRIOTS! MURDER WOMEN AND CHILDREN" and the like.

The murders and sectarian killings are being carried out in a reasoned and deliberate way by Iraqis and foreign nationals, many of whom are support (and incited) by Iran. The Americans are not responsible for those actions, they are all grown adults who have decided that because they can cause mayhem, they will

Your claim that America is to blame is like saying a Firefighter is to blame if he saves 10 people from an apartment building fire, and then 2 of them go on to be murderers or rapists.

Iran is very much to blame for inciting, inflaming and fuelling the insurgency - which is to blame for thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths as well as the attacks on American soldiers.

The core of my argument is that someone doing something that upsets you is not justification for you to go on a spree of murder and bloodshed. You are responsible for your own actions.

Colin's weasely opinion that Iran is quite justified in protecting it's perceived interests while America is not, is just the kind of hypocritical bullshit I've come to expect from the Anti-War brigade.

On a slightly different note, it's even more upsetting that Steve Irwin's death seems to have raised more interest in the media and on this site than the several British soldiers who have died thousands of miles away from home this week.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[craigie b]

Mister James said....

[zaknafien]

[Mister James]

[Mister James]

[Ahmato_]

What I can't understand is the term 'Iraqi Insurgents'. Surely we're the insurgents in their country? And to be fair, I think some of the guys there have a reason to be pissed off with us. At least under Saddam, people did as they were told, now they kind of live in fear of being hit by an American Bomber, or torn apart by Miliatants, or perhaps even blown up in a car bomb on the way to work.

I'm pretty sure these people want someone to blame, and seeing as we did 'start' it all, perhaps thats why they go after us?
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SavageKymco wrote: lol yea yea, im just gettin food here, keep my strength up you know. all this killing takes a lot out of a guy Ha ha

[Mister James]

[Ahmato_]

I suppose your right. Either way I look at it I can't think of a solution that would be feasible to this problem...
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SavageKymco wrote: lol yea yea, im just gettin food here, keep my strength up you know. all this killing takes a lot out of a guy Ha ha

[Mister James]

It is true that we have got ourselves into a rather vicious quagmire. My initial support for Bush and Blair has been eroded by the appalling planning for post-war ops on Bush's part, and appalling lack of support for the troops on Blair's part. He's happy to pop over for the short-sleeved photo-shoot surrounded by hordes of military tough-guys, but doesn't give a shit that his government has hung them out to dry with crap equipment, no support, no clear mandate or strategy, and no exit plan.

Arsehole.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[bazza]

[colin1]

[Mister James]

[zaknafien]

[king kong]

[Teaman]

everyone is entitled to there oppinion on this matter and tbh King Kong I have to say it takes balls to say something and stand by your convictions.
the trouble is were not hearing the full story as to whats happening, alot of it is bad propaganda from the press and tree huggers
er yeah,,,
Im all for the troops coming home aswell, we did set out to topple sadam and we managed that, the trouble is, his regime hasnt fully gone, and there are still major issues that need resolving there, unfortunately there not quite capable of sorting them out between themselfs mainly due to religion, (do you think that if we had turned out back or ireland the trouble would have stopped?)
I think there will be huge problems in afganistan, even russia got fed up with that, (mind you they were winning untill the rebles got there hands on surface to air missiles, not sure where from )
as for soldiers dying being wrong,
I suppose it is, any one person dying for what they believe in or have to do because someone higher up the ladder tells them is human nature,
there will always be winners and loosers eventually.
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There is no point in ranting about someone stupid because there is nothing u can do about it. There is no cure for stupid.
Someone stupid does not realise they r stupid.stupidity is indistinguishable from malice U just have to accept that some people are thick as p1gsh1t and work around them.

[Mister James]

Slightly off-topic but it has already been mentioned: I have very little time for those who don't vote, and then complain about political decisions. If parties do not suit your political beliefs, then try and change them or start your own. There is no substitute for participation.

Even if I honestly couldn't choose a party, I think I'd still turn up and spoil my ballot, it's still counted and at least I'd feel that I'd registered the fact I gave a toss about something.

The voting system should be changed to provide an actual option as "None of the Above" - if votes for that reach a certain proportion, the election should be re-held in a certain period to give the parties time to come up with better policies.
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>Soultrader Mister James, I bet you are a copper
>Bazza Wow. Eyes like a shithouse rat, you...

[bazza]

[Annabella]

You didn't vote!?


Not voting isn't a protest against anything, it just shows apathy or laziness.

Not voting is criminal, throwing away something we should value so highly - our democracy our RIGHT to have a say in how our country is run.

You don't vote you say it's ok for leaders to do whatever they want because all we'll do to protest against it is say nothing.

It makes me angry, really really angry.
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Avast! Pirates ahoy!
I did Cadwell!
www.bikepics.com/members/bella

[colin1]

why vote if there is no one who represents your views ?

i wouldnt vote because only one party ever wins in my area and they have a strong majority and as it happens Id prefer to have that one than the others but I'm not too keen on them either.

Democracy gives the illusion that the opinions of the individual matter, but they dont really.

The last time i voted, I helped bring in a guy who seemed quite good and then disappointed me with how out of touch with reality he seemed and how bad his judgement was. Unfortunately I couldnt take back my vote.

You can only vote on an impression, and the reality is often quite different.

to kingkong for not voting

although i dont think we shd bring the troops home
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colin1 is officially faster than god

[Annabella]

If no one represents your views - SHOW it, go along and spoil your ballot.

Don't just 'not bother'. If enough people start thinking that by not voting they are making a stand then the government will just decide whatever they want.


It makes me so angry that people think they are rebelling by not voting. At least we have a form of democracy. Think about millions of people who don't, don't even get to choose between the lesser of two evils.
At the moment, the government can't go crazy and change the voting process and become a dictatorship.
If enough people don't bother to vote then they can decide whatever the hell they like. No matter what, the government is only there because we have chosen them to be - and that hangs over them always.

Whilst there may not be 'healthy' competition, there is a least competition and an opposing party at the moment.


Absolute fools. If you don't vote, you're an idiot who doesn't value your freedom.
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Avast! Pirates ahoy!
I did Cadwell!
www.bikepics.com/members/bella

[mr jamez]

I spoiled my ballot, they're all pricks. Next time I will vote for whoever is going to get Labour out. Not voting doesn't remove the right to have an opinion or oppose the government.
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NSR 125F > BROS 400 > NC30 > BROS 400 > Trumpet S4 > '97 VFR 750

[G]

[Annabella]