What Ampage for ignition switch?

[Cillit-BANG]

Hi,

I need a simple rocker switch for my trackbike to replace the key ignition. Could someone please advise what Ampage the switch is likely to need to be please.

I've seen these, will they be up to the job.

Same sort of question for the starter button too, although naturally not a rocker switch!!

Cheers Cillit.

[finpos]

It will be switching the fused supply, so anything rated at more than the value of the fuse (@12Vdc or more) you are using will be fine.

finpos.

[Paddy Blake]

Any of those switches should do as for the starter i put a door bell switch
on a bike a few weeks ago and still no problem.

[stinkwheel]

For most bikes, 30A is more than sufficient (same rating as the main fuse).

You'll most likely need a 6 pole switch for an ignition.

I always preferred toggle switches from a purely aesthetic point of view. It's like having an old aeroplane, flick the switch and shout "contact!"
https://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/image_uploads/771975851.jpg

[Cillit-BANG]

Why will I need a 6pole Stinkwheel?

I've got rid of the Fan BTW, which from my wiring diagram means there should be only 2 wires to the switch. One in from the main fuse, and one back out to the Ignition fuse. (Thats the only fuse left now as the indicator fuse is redundent, as is the headlight fuse.

Same as the starter buton, one wire in one wire out. Or am I missing something.

Many thanks for the input, Anthony.

Yeah, I like the toggle switches too, can you get them that release so I can use it for the starter button? I ALWAYS loved seeing them on the beginning to the Pink Panther where the guy jumps into the kit car.

[finpos]

look for "momentary action toggle switch", you should find something.

The multipole switch is because it's good practice to replicate the kill switch through it, so when you switch off the "ignition" the engine stops running automatically as well. You may want to run the starter motor wiring through it as well so you can't spin up the motor with the ignition off.

i.e. when that switch is "off", the bike is dead.

finpos.

[Cillit-BANG]

Ahh I see. Although I was going to probably run a seperate kill switch anyway. But having it all in one would indeed be neater.

I've found these which look more like it. A little over priced probably though.

[stinkwheel]

What he said.

You would usually have two circuits going through the ignition switch. In the 'off' position there is an open circuit to the fusebox and a closed circuit between the coils and earth. The state is reversed for the 'on' position.

As finpos said. This way, you switch the bike off and the engine stops, otherwise it will run-on.

As for the starter switch, you need one of these, it is the law!
https://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/switch-1/Images/ge345.GIF

Or how about one of these :
https://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/switch-1/Images/ge343a.GIF

https://www.vehiclewiringproducts.co.uk

[Cillit-BANG]

Ah crap I'm in over my head. At least I have the winter to get my my brain round it!!

If the ignition switch is turned off, ie. the positive feed to the ignition fuse is disconnnected, how does the bike run on?

Its an NC30, and there are definately only three wires into the ignition barrel. One live in and 2 out, one of which goes direct to the fan/horn fuse(this one being removed as not needed) and one which would have split into 3 feeding the 3 other fuses (only 1 now though as lights & indi circuit not being used). So in theory to replace the key barrel there are just 2 wires to switch?

The coils again are fed directly from the ignition fuse, so if the power to the ignition fuse is switched off at the switch then the coils aren't getting any power.

And yes, I too had spotted the red covered toggle switch. Mmmm

Thanks for taking the time to help. I'm sure it's like banging your head against a brick wall

[stinkwheel]

Oh right. Different to usual then. Most CDI motorbikes don't actually stop running until you earth the coil.

There's probably a relay in the fusebox that does this when you switch the ignition off. Fair enough, a two/four terminal switch will do the job then.

[Cillit-BANG]

Crap, right I'm getting there now. I'd completely forgot that the coils earth through the spark I now understand your previous post a bit more.

OK, so when the ignition switch is turned off, usually this also earths the coils to prevent the spark plugs firing?

There are definately no more than three cables from the ignition barrel. Perhaps then the 3rd cable which feeds the fan/Horn fuse is slightly more important and indeed earths the coils somehow.

No relay in the fusebox. I will study the wiring diagram a bit more. I've been spending every spare minute looking at it try to work out whats what. Thanks for your help.

[stinkwheel]

[Cillit-BANG]

Cheers buddy you've been a great help.

I'm going to go and study the wiring diagram AGAIN and try to work things out. What makes things worse is that there is also a restrictor built into the cdi which has to be bridged with a resistor if you remove the speedo. I can't find out where though and the Greybike forum haven't come up with the solution either.

At least it will be a good few months before the bike is ready for the loom!!

[stinkwheel]

Seems to me I'm more confusing the issue than anything, but hell, you're keeping me entertained on a very quiet weekend on call when I can't play with my own bikes

Here's an idea just off the top of my head. Why not measure the resistance across the speedo using a multimeter then connect an appropriately sized resistor where the speedo would normally go?

Or does it not work like that?

[finpos]

More suggestions, which may or may not be right...

CDIs - you need to be careful, some are magneto powered, some are battery powered. It's the first type that will allow the engine to run with the ignition off. My guess is that you have the second type, so that there is a 12V supply to it, and, furthermore, you might find that this supply is cut by both the ignition switch and also all the sidestand switch interlock gubbins. If that's the case, then what I said earlier is wrong. By cutting the 12V to the CDI, you disable the ignition module and the motor dies. So that's one problem less.

Also, I think stinkwheel is right about the limiter. There are two wires going to the speedo from the CDI. at >speed limit, these wires are shorted together inside the speedo. at < speed limit, they carry the resistance. The purpose being to stop any idiot cutting the wires and disabling the limiter. So measure the resistance between those two wires,cut them and splice a 2p replacement in.

finpos.

[Cillit-BANG]

How it works-

The speedo reads in KPH. When the speedo hits 180kph it restricts the ignition. If you fit a speedo converter it will never hit 180MPH so all is well.

You can also wire in a 2.2k ohm resistor at the speedo. As shown here-

However as I am removing the speedo, I want to add the resistor down at the CDI unit, but no one seems to know which wires to connect. See here

Yep, the fan is switched on the earth side, but the horn on the positive side Looking at the wiring diagram I still reckon the ignition key simply cuts the one main wire from the ignition fuse which splits into two- one is switched with the starter button which returns to the starter relay and the other runs through the kill switch then on to the coils and cdi.

[Cillit-BANG]

Finpos, yeah that 2nd option sounds about right. There is no side stand switch but it is therefor interlocked by the neutral and clutch diode for starting. This isn't too much of an issue as I can get my head around these bits, plus they will be staying in the new loom so I can simply replicate it.

I'm pretty sure its not a magneto jobbie

[stinkwheel]

[Cillit-BANG]

I think there is a specialist plug and play item which I can buy for about a fiver, this may be the easiest option!!

However it would be great Stinky if you could have a quick look over to check the igition switches are as simple as they actually look!

I'll try to scan it and then mark my proposed modifications. It may take me a day or two but I'll PM it to you hopefully.

If its too much hassle then it's cool, just ignore it. I'm sure you have better things to do, I certainly won't pester you in any way or think anything of it.

Anthony.

[Cillit-BANG]

I hope this works. I've doctored it in photoshop for my proposed changes.

The positive feed (brown with white flecks) which is dangling, I was going to join up with the positive run which is just below it which runs from the indicator fuse.

The speedo sender cable from the CDI (green with blue flecks) I think is linked up to the plug and play resistor thing, tbc.

[Cillit-BANG]

Old Loom

[stinkwheel]

Ok, a fair bit of thinking out loud here and I'm going through this a bit at a time.

I like to break the wiring down into systems. Makes it less confused and helps my thought processes. Here is your diagram showing the starter circuit.

Looking at it, you have retained the safety interlocks. The 'clutch diode' allows current from the solenoid to earth through the neutral switch when in neutral and/or through the clutch switch when in gear. So you can only work the starter when in neutral or with the clutch pulled in.

Do you need them? If not, scrub most of the green wiring (inside the dashed box) and just connect the green with red tracer coming from the solenoid straight to earth. This removes two componants from the mix (clutch switch and clutch diode) and does away with about three metres of wire between the solenoid and earth.

The neutral light will still function as normal.

[Cillit-BANG]

LOL. NC30's are virtually imposible to put into neutral once you've come to a stop. (It's fine if you kill the ignition though, they flick in straight away). I was paranoid that if I couldn't find neutral for any reason, then I won't be able to start it up.

I might leave that part in, although the cable up to the clutch lever will look crap as there is no other wiring heading that way anymore. Something to think about, cheers

I seriously owe you a few.

[Cillit-BANG]

Ah sod it, in for a penny...... I've modified it as you say, clutch switch and/or neutral no longer required for starting. Indeed a lot neater and simpler.

[stinkwheel]

Been looking at the rev limiter box in the speedo and the modification carried out on the greybike website.

Now you are certain that the wiring diagram you posted is correct and shows what is on your bike?

If so it appears from the diagram you supplied, that the modification shown on greybike is not appropriate for your bike. Cutting the two wires they showed would stop the neutral light working and stop the oil pressure lamp from functioning. If you ran low on oil pressure, the resistor would overheat and the fuse could well blow.

More thought progression, see if you follow me.

There are four wires running from the 'rev limiter' box.

Green = earth
Black with brown tracer = power in
Green with blue tracer = ICU box
Black with red tracer = earth from rev limiter bulb

Two assumptions: 1) The resistor trick will work on this bike too (a jump in logic) 2) green is always earth (safe assumption, it is a honda).

We can ignore the black with red tracer, it's only to do with the light, doesn't go past the limiter box and is essentially internal. So we're left with three wires going in and out of that box.

Going by what greybike says, we leave the earth intact. So, in conclusion, the green with blue tracer needs to be fed 12v through a resistor.

If we've done this. The rev limiter box is now only connected to earth, we can chop the wires and remove it, or just leave it there, it is inert.

Now, looking at the ICU. There is only one steady 12V input which is the black with white tracer. So, if you bridge the Green with blue tracer across to the black with white tracer through your resistor, you should be there. See picture.

This is just my take on the subject. PLEASE check my reasoning and satisfy yourself it is the way to go before you jump in and do anything.