"Undue care and attention" - Advice Needed

Keith · World Chat Champion Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Karma :

Good afternoon everyone! Its been quite some time since I last popped up on the forum but I hope everyone is well. Smile

That being said, I'm after a little advice regarding a run in with the law some weeks back. Police

Basically, I managed to overtake an unmarked police car (subaru impreza) while leaving Northallerton in North Yorkshire. I was on some country roads with a 30 limit, not far from a 40 zone, followed by national limit, with very little distance between them. I obviously exceeded the limit during the overtake so the police pulled me up a little further up the road. I co-operated as such, admitted that i was speeding and the copper agreed to lower the charge from dangerous riding to "without due care and attention". I received a verbal warning and was on my way.

I've just received my court summons and nothing is said about speeding, its just undue care and attention that I'm being done for. The police have video footage of the incident and I dont have a problem pleading guilty.

I've been given the option to send in my guilty plea by post, but I'm just curious as to what sort of punishment I'll be facing. I've not got any points on my license, nor have I had any trouble with the law before this. The weather conditions were good and there was nothing dangerous or even careless about the overtake. The bike is perfectly legal and theres nothing dodgy about my documents. The police have stated in the report that they are only guessing the speed that I travelled and cant prove the actual figures.

I called our local solicitor and he told me that I'll be better off making an appearance in court, even if it is to give my guilty plea. He said at least that way you're looked at with some respect for actually showing up, rather than being ignorant and blatantly guilty for sending it in by post.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has been through a similar scenario. What sort of points/fine can I expect to receive? By the time I'm in court next month, my 2 years at 33bhp will be up so I'm no longer limited to the 6 points.

Personally I cant see why they dont just do me for speeding, I'd feel a whole lot better.

Hope you wise lot can help me. Smile

Toodles.
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T1z3R · World Chat Champion Joined: 23 Oct 2005 Karma :

had a mate that did similar although was in a car.

he went to court smartly dressed and represented himself and basically admitted the offence and gave his reasons for his actions, explained that he was remourseful and realised his error and he got off with it.

thats not to say this is what you should do though Neutral

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the grim reaper · World Chat Champion Joined: 29 Jun 2005 Karma :

I think that DCA is 3-6 points, could be higher though. I reckon turning up in court and looking sorry will get you 3 points and a fine.

Cheers

Grim
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sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

Is there any more to this story? A basic salt and pepper speeding offence cannot just be turned into DWDCA.

Unmarked cars like Subaru's are normally purchased as high speed pursuit vehicles and would normally be equiped with Video. If you have told the whole truth I would be inclined to plead not guilty and request a full session video. This would then put you in a position of having the informed choice and a possible legal opinion over whether or not to attempt to plead it down to speeding.

feef · Energiser Bunny Joined: 11 Feb 2002 Karma :

According to my lawyer at the time, Without Due Care an Attention: a CD30, is a mandatory 6 points, and up to £1000 fine. I got off with a £450 fine after my crash, due to the fact I was hospitalised for 2 weeks, and that contributed to me learning my lesson.

a
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VolvoDriver · Derestricted Danger Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Karma :

Hi Keith, I'd check whether the two year 'probationary' period covers the date of offence or date of conviction. Either way, as others have said, turn up in person and look contrite (without going OTT!). Nothing pi**es magistrates off more than someone stroppily arguing the toss in the light of video evidence. Good luck Smile

sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

VolvoDriver · Derestricted Danger Joined: 27 Jul 2006 Karma :

Keith · World Chat Champion Joined: 24 Mar 2004 Karma :

stemc · Borekit Bruiser Joined: 23 Aug 2005 Karma :

Dont want to worry you mate but, I was done for careless driving a few years ago, at the time of conviction I had a clean licence, however at the time of the offence I had 6 points, they gave me 6 points and a £400 fine for the careless driving charge. I was banned for 6 months for totting up 12 points, the twats applied the points from the time of the offence...
Check it out with your solicitor, and if you have a chance of fighting it do so.

map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

tintin · Traffic Copper Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Karma :

Get a solicitor - or at the least get a fixed fee initial meeting with one to discuss the options.

A solicitor will still advise you to plead guilty but they will get lots of mitigation and positive character witnesses into the plea. If they do their job properly then there is a good chance you will get reduced points and fine.

Don't forget the copper's statement will not usually mention anything about your general attitude, road conditions, traffic conditions etc, etc.

As you said you put your hands up and said sorry, but it wasn't like you were going mental.
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sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

Were you less than 30mph under the limit? If so I would go not guilty and request the full session tape. If everything looks good on the tape get a brief and continue to go not guilty, if its bad change your plea.

headlamp · World Chat Champion Joined: 26 Nov 2003 Karma :

Siggi's right. Plead not guilty. Make a complaint against the Officer. get a solicitor - see if your insurance will cover you for the costs. Get him to review the evidence and statements from the police, if it looks like you are unlikely to get off you can always change your plea later.
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Blau Zedong · Banned Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Karma :

I got a CD10 (accused of speeding at a ton in crap weather), reduced from dangerous driving at crown court Shocked

. 4 points and £70 fine, £50 costs. As the copper said to me....it's not your driving son, it's your attitude....
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map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

Annabella · Like a person, only smaller Joined: 03 Feb 2002 Karma :

sickpup · Old Timer Joined: 21 Apr 2004 Karma :

Blau Zedong · Banned Joined: 26 Jun 2006 Karma :

Was south yorkshire police and yes he was an utter twat of the highest order. Actually added to his statement aftet that in his opinion it was "the worst examples of driving" he had ever seen. This is a guy who has probably chased chavs the wrong way up motorway sliproads etc.....

Could of done without waiting ten months to sort it all out though, they only bought the option of the lesser crime after 3 trips to magistrates failed to convince me to plead guilty. Waste of time and money.
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18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

Gazdaman · I did a trackday!!! Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Karma :

Having been in a similar position recently, I was expecting 3 points and about £100 for DWDCAA.

I agree with appearing at court, although its easier to plead by post, actually going there in a suit may help (although it may not).

Talk to the citizen's advice bureau, see if you qualify for legal aid for them to pay for your solicitor.
Also, put a post up on traffic-answers.com/forum/ They helped me no end with my problem.

The way I understand it, what you did doesn't count as DWDCAA, speeding maybe, but it sounds like you knew what you were doing.

(Also, the charge is driving without due care and attention. If you were driving with undue care and attention, that would mean more care and attention than is needed.)

Gaz

Mrs Kickstart · Brolly Dolly Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Karma :

Hi,
If found gulity it is 3 - 9 points and up to 2500 fine + CPS costs which should be no more than about 2.5 times the fine. I would expect them to be about 50 quid though if you do not fight it.

It is better to turn up in court and apoligise if you are going for gulity. IMO There is little point in employing a solictor to go with for gulity plea it just adds to the costs.

If you want to challange the charge you need to plead not-gulity by post (the case will be adjorned) then get the tape and have it checked by an expert. Only you know if this is worth doing.

There may be other techincal problems with the evidence if you fight.
Regards
Charlotte
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map · Mr Calendar Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :

Gazdaman · I did a trackday!!! Joined: 12 Aug 2004 Karma :

Speeding isn't a prerequisite.

I was going to be charged with it, and there was no mention of speeding whatsoever.

Gaz

Mrs Kickstart · Brolly Dolly Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Karma :

Hi,

You are not entitled to leagal aid as the punishment for the offence is not custodial

They would have 6 months from the offence to summons for speeding. The DWDC is seperate and the may allege excessive speed but would not be that on its own. You are unlikey to be able to challage the charge with out an expert witness commenting on the tape.

Regards
Charlotte
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stinkwheel · Bovine Proctologist Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :

Sounds trumped up to me from your description, also sounds like you need professional legal advice from a specialist.

Here's how they build their case. Have a read, see if it applies to you:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section9/chapter_b.html