The veil, the media and our knee jerk reaction

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The veil, the media and our knee jerk reaction
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craigie b
Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 12:27 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Quote:

Hardly anything so dramatic and sinister - the government legislates in the hope that the recipients and their supporters will vote for it.

lol, oh yeah, labours voting base is renowned for being muslim. Pandering to the muslims really is a vote winner amongst labour fans.

Quote:

They do not, because huge swathes of the government and the population believe that all minorities should have their every whim catered for.

Unless you can prove the assertation that huge swaths of the population support positive discrimination, support imigrants gaining special benefits over the rest of us etc then I can only assume that your point is in effect false or just your opinion. No one I talk to supports excess PC behaviour.

Quote:

That is largely due to the huge amounts of pressure exerted on such groups by the said minorities.

The minorities should be allowed to exert pressure and use democracy. It should be the governments responsibility to be strong and say no.

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G
The Voice of Reason

Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma : Outstanding Karma (Capped)

Posted: 12:27 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Siggi wrote:

The veil is an easily and instantly recognizable symbol of a group of religious fanatics who want and intend to take over our country and subject us to sharia law.

What part of that don't you get?

Pretty much all of it, because I think you've made it up.

The veil is used my some Muslim women. So far I have seen absolutely no evidnece to suggest that those wearing veils are religious fanatics, want to take over our country or subject us to Sharia law.

Infact, most I've seen of those that fit this criteria have beards. Which when you think about it is very similar to a veil in the way it hides the face.

So, lets persecute all those that have beards in this country. I don't wnat to live in a society that lets all these beard-wearers get away with their gastly crimes, threatening my chosen way of life.

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craigie b
Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 12:49 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

killa wrote:

Right back at you.....it was a stupid statement. Glad you proved yourself twice.

What is your fucking problem Killa? Grow up and don't act like a fucking dick because the arguement goes over your hed.

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craigie b
Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 12:52 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Siggi wrote:

Ok, not every football fan is a moron, but every football fan who engages in football fan-ism is engaging in moronic behaviour.

Ditto every single individual who participates in religious worship. But the point here is that some religions are more odious than others, and islam is one of the worst. If one could offer a comparative scale based on human evolution, islam is the monkey, still in the tree, grunting and scratching it's own faeces-dripping arse.

Do you accept that there moderate islam and fundamental islam? I agree that the fundamentalists we see on TV are odious savages, however we only see them repeatedly because they make better news.

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killa
Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 1)

Posted: 13:04 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

craigie b wrote:

What is your fucking problem Killa?

craigie b wrote:

Because 'integrate british' argument is largely used by white people, in my personal experience. How many coloured people have added to this thread.

This is a stupid statement, therefore you get the reply to which I see fit, if your 100% right that whiteys are using this to slag off Islam then I’ll apologise.
Your having a debate, you’ve put the question forward to everyone and no, it’s not going over my head, I find members say this when someone attacks their opinion.
I have little time in my day to think about some Ajax supporter being beaten by a British football supporter, fuck them and fuck the fucking game.

Islam is no game, they take it very seriously, and I take my countries pride and well being seriously, something’s have been asked of from both parties and I see a pattern forming, how this will have an effect on the entire British population in the end I have no idea.
As you said, we are fed all manner of things about Islam through the picture box and in the papers, I personally know a few Muslims. My brother in law is one and from talking with him my views on the situation fit perfectly, I however find it hard to express views on here.
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craigie b
Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 13:09 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Quote:

if your 100% right that whiteys are using this to slag off Islam then I’ll apologise.

note where i said in my personal experience....thats means the statement was based on my opinion from people i know and talk too....which means I accept that its not accurate. do you have a problem with me sharing my experience? Am I wrong for experiencing British intergration from only white people?

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killa
Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 1)

Posted: 13:15 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Siggi wrote:

It's a bit like saying a concentration-camp staffer wasn't so bad if he only manned the entrance gate.

Also on a side note, most Muslims who don’t go around in the veils to conceal themselves while protesting about westerners over here, go home and go to work the next day like any one else.
They may not have extreme views and ways, but they still hate you for how you live.
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G
The Voice of Reason

Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma : Outstanding Karma (Capped)

Posted: 13:17 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Siggi wrote:

Here's a clue...they all, voluntarily, practice a backward, repressive, brutal and human-right's denying religion.

Again, you are telling mis-truths.

Some people interpret the religion to deny 'human rights' and be brutal, repressive, etc.
However not all do.

It is the people and the way they interpret the religion that deny human rights, not the religion it's self.
Other people interpret it in a nice, friendly fluffy-cloud way.
Same with christanity. Same with a lot of things, infact, like UK law and living in the UK.

Just because one section of a group has bad practices, it does not make it right to persecute the whole group.
Such attitudes will see biking, drinking and wearing anything but a mao-suit banned here as well.

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killa
Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 1)

Posted: 13:19 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

craigie b wrote:

note where i said in my personal experience....thats means the statement was based on my opinion from people i know and talk too....

Quote that bit then, right before you said "That's cuz white people use race card innit"
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Mister James
I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 13:27 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

craigie b wrote:

lol, oh yeah, labours voting base is renowned for being muslim. Pandering to the muslims really is a vote winner amongst labour fans.

Correct.

Quote:

I will make no effort to prove something that is so obvious.

Quote:

The minorities should be allowed to exert pressure and use democracy. It should be the governments responsibility to be strong and say no.

Congratulations on missing the point entirely. If minorities agitate for things that I disagree with, then I will dislike them and disagree with them - regardless of whether their wishes come to pass.

Intent is as important as the result.
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G
The Voice of Reason

Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma : Outstanding Karma (Capped)

Posted: 13:32 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Siggi wrote:

G, the koran is open to only limited interpretation. I've seen excerpts that clearly encourage the promulgation of islam by means of war, the subjugation of women and other nasty shite.

Where do you think the fucktards get sharia law from, out of a jamboree bag?

It's open to massive interpretation, as can be seen by the vast variety of people that follow Islam, unless you are seriously suggesting that all feel in a similar manner to the suicide bombers?

If people followed what is written even in modern christian bibles to the word, not only would they end up even more confused than they are now, but also doing some very odd and in some cases pretty nasty things.

Mister James wrote:

If minorities agitate for things that I disagree with, then I will dislike them and disagree with them - regardless of whether their wishes come to pass.

What if people part of a majority agitate for things that a minority wants. Will you still disagree with that minority?

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craigie b
Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 13:32 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Siggi wrote:

Killa, introducing "STFU" into a debate, where no deliberate offence has been directed at you first, is out of order (bangs gavel on wooden block, shouting "ORDER! ORDER!!!!"). Laughing

Good man Siggi Laughing

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Mister James
I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 13:39 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

G wrote:

What if people part of a majority agitate for things that a minority wants. Will you still disagree with that minority?

If they want and use such 'things', then yes - I'll simply widen the scope of my disagreement.

I recognise the fact that there are people within the establishment and wider community who feel the need to prove their 'inclusiveness' and their lack of 'prejudice', rest assured I reserve a particularly virulent feeling of scorn for them!
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G
The Voice of Reason

Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma : Outstanding Karma (Capped)

Posted: 13:40 - 19 Oct 2006 Post subject:

Seeing that you do accept that people do interpret Islam in different ways, why feel the need to abuse those that use it 'nicely'? Legitimate interpretation in one persons eyes is very different in anothers.

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killa
Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 1)

Posted: 13:47 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

craigie b wrote:

Good man Siggi

Craig i was wrong to simply put STFU, so i take it back.

It was just a stupid thing to say that's all. Laughing

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craigie b
Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 13:49 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Mister James wrote:

craigie b wrote:

lol, oh yeah, labours voting base is renowned for being muslim. Pandering to the muslims really is a vote winner amongst labour fans.

Correct.

I stand corrected....

Quote:

The history of Labour's support in the Muslim community is pretty straightforward. Labour was the only party prepared to accept and work with the Muslim communities (and Hindu, and afro-caribbean) as they established them selves in Britain's Inner cities. as a result, they became one of Labour's most loyal supporters, both individually, and through an en-bloc approach dictated by "community leaders". There were occassional fractures, most notably over Kashmir, where Labour refused to take up a completely pro-pakistan position, but in general Muslims overwhemingly voted Labour.

https://britishspin.blogspot.com/2005_03_13_britishspin_archive.html

Quote:

I have yet to see the masses who support what you are talking about. I see government sponsored institutions doing this but not Jo public. With out evidence your jsut frowarding your own biased opinion, which is what I suspect. Unless the swathes are in fact muslim...but then they only make up 2.7% of the population.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Kingdom

Quote:

The minorities should be allowed to exert pressure and use democracy. It should be the governments responsibility to be strong and say no.

Congratulations on missing the point entirely. If minorities agitate for things that I disagree with, then I will dislike them and disagree with them - regardless of whether their wishes come to pass.

Intent is as important as the result.

That is your right, just like the minorities are allowed to express theirs. I fail to your point though.

Last edited by craigie b on 13:53 - 19 Oct 2006; edited 3 times in total

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craigie b
Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 13:50 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

killa wrote:

craigie b wrote:

Good man Siggi

Craig i was wrong to simply put STFU, so i take it back.

It was just a stupid thing to say that's all. Laughing

Cheers bud Laughing

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G
The Voice of Reason

Joined: 02 Feb 2002
Karma : Outstanding Karma (Capped)

Posted: 13:52 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Quote:

Use it "nicely"? You mean the guy who politely opens the gate to the concentration camp shouldn't be shot along with those doing the hangings?

No I mean the bloke sitting at home in England shouldn't be shot because his country men and fellow christians are running a concentration camp without his active consent.

Quote:

How can you "nicely" practice a dogma that actively encourages it's own promulgation by means of war and the subjugation of women? By just ignoring the bad bits?

Yes. That's what most people do, don't practice the bits they don't like.
Same with every religion out there, from what I've seen.
I'm sure even the extremists leave out bits that don't agree with their view of their religion.

Quote:

Next week, Hitler's 'Mein Kampf', the respectable edition (we left out the word 'Kike').

So, do you think we should have killed all the Germans at the end of the war?
After all they actively chose their government, weren't even born into it being fed it every day of their lives, as most Muslims are.

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Mister James
I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 13:58 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

G wrote:

Seeing that you do accept that people do interpret Islam in different ways, why feel the need to abuse those that use it 'nicely'?

Legitimate interpretation in one persons eyes is very different in anothers.

Mister James wrote:

The various forms of veils and coverings worn by Muslim women (not the men - thus showing one of the first concerning features of the religion) are just such a uniform, showing an allegiance to a movement or ideology that many of us have strong opinions on.

In some ways, it is no good saying that people should recognise that all Muslims are not extremists, any more than I would expect an Iraqi whose family had been killed by an LGB to recognise the difference between an RAF pilot and the Royal Military Police patrolling his street.

People who choose to align themselves to a grouping or an ideal must accept that they will most likely be identified with all of the actions of all of the others who do the same.

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pwntifex
World Chat Champion

Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Karma : Good Karma (Level 3)

Posted: 13:59 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

craigie b wrote:

I believe Christians and Muslims, at one point in time, lived in complete peace and harmony.

Then you are an idiot.
Sorry.

Moving on,

craigie b wrote:

Do you know how many people 2.7% of the population of the United Kingdom amounts to? Even though 2.7% is statistically a very small number of people, it's nothing to do with the size of your group but the volume of your voice (and caches of explosives tend to amplify that slightly)

Should they wish to, there are more than enough extremists in this country to mount a guerilla war against non-muslim nationals, and it wouldn't take too much effort to set them off.
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the warped one: This is a follow up from the thread 'my willy hurts'

Last edited by pwntifex on 14:11 - 19 Oct 2006; edited 2 times in total

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Mister James
I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 14:07 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

craigie b wrote:

You deny the existence of the Liberal Democrats, for example? You deny the existence of thousands - if not millions - of influential people who have supported the growth of the Race Relations industry, and thus fed the problems that we now face today? You obviously never had my A level History teacher, or any of my uni lecturers. Obviously no-one actually buys the Guardian or Independent, except to wipe their arses with. My own father was obviously winding me up the last time he talked a load of shit about my choice of profession, and my views on race and Islam - how stupid I've been, it's all a big wind up!
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killa
Won't Shut Up

Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Karma : Excellent Karma (Level 1)

Posted: 14:24 - 19 Oct 2006 Post subject:

One of my pet hates is when people speak of minorities not having the sort of impact we are talking about. Jack straw has met a few muslims, there was one that he had asked to remove her veil whilst speaking to him. Handfuls more have been asked since, then a small group start a row about what he said. One thing leads to another, it only takes one person to start the ball rolling. The impact is greatend, hence we debate on here about it. ____________________ Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult. Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 \| Killas Biking History \| Killas Gaming History \| Killas autmotive history

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craigie b
Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 14:33 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

pwntifex wrote:

craigie b wrote:

I believe Christians and Muslims, at one point in time, lived in complete peace and harmony.

Then you are an idiot.
Sorry.,

Christian and Musilims lived together in Jerusalem, pre crusade era. Rather than layer on insults, have a look in the history books.

Quote:

2.7% is 1.5 million of the 60 million who live here. Barely spectacular. Your point about cach of explosives is ridiculous....a ex BNP man got caught with the largest cache of chyemical explosives ever found in this country and his voice wasn't heard.

What you are demonstrating is a excellently uneducated opinion, or more to the point a media induced opinion that is largely speculative and full of falsehoods.

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craigie b
Citizen Smith

Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 14:38 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

Mister James wrote:

The lib dems don't make policy and are not in power. Besides the population who actually votes mean their actual support numbers do not reflect a massive swathe of the population. Further more being a lib dem supporter does not immediatly mean you support posistive discrimination.

Supporting the race relations does not mean you support positive discrimination nor does it mean you pander to every ridiculous passed law.

I never did have your history teacher and the guardian and indepent do no support positive discrimination.

Basically your basing your opinion on personal experience and whilst I agree that it can seem the way you say it is, I don't think its the majorities opinion, just the minorities being forced onto us./

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Mister James
I want to believe!

Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Karma : Good Karma (Level 4)

Posted: 15:09 - 19 Oct 2006

Post subject:

craigie b wrote:

What a load of tripe, waffle, and shit.

Supporting the Race Relations Industry - and associated legislation - does indeed mean you support positive discrimination, because that ideal is at the heart of almost everything to do with 'equal opportunities'.

The Guardian and The Independent not only support such things, they positively encourage them, and label as racist/prejudiced/moronic anyone who does not.

At no point did I say that a majority of people support that kind of shit, (although one could put forward the old saying "for evil to triumph......") I said 'vast swathes', and I stand by it.

I sure you mean well, bless your little cotton socks, but I'm equally sure that most of the other people with your beliefs do - despite their meddling having got us into this pretty little bind.
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