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Stering Dampers...

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Bishbash
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Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Stering Dampers... Reply with quote
...What advantages do they bring and how do you rate them?
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NSR Mick
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
A well set up bike shouldnt slap under normal conditions. I've got one on mine but it's set to mininum as I've only left it on for a pose.

They will make the steering heavier making turn in slower which I found a bit scary to be honest.
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NSR Mick
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi, it depends on how quick you want to turn the bars. Wink

Although to be fair it probably is foobared.
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 13:28 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:


You must have a porked damper, because a properly functioning one will not do that. They work when the wheel oscillates violently at high speed, not under normal turning conditions, and every sports bike can benefit from one (eg, no sports bike ever made is slapper-proof).


Wrong Siggi. Go to the back of the class.

The only damper that doesn't work all the time is the Hyper-pro.

A damper will always slow down the ability to steer when the damping is set due to having to force oil through a small valve.

Most bikes don't need them but a lot of people do. Took me WP unit off my RRT Blade as it slowed down the handling and just annoyed me. I've also taken them off my GSXR750L,750RK and my GSXR1100N.

Slappers are caused by either the front wheel going light during acceleration and skimming the tarmac so people panic or by a force that cannot be absorbed by the suspension causing an oscillation. The second one a damper will do very little to prevent.

A badly set up damper can also cause problems like weaves as you can no longer make quick minute corrections.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:48 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:


I have a Sprint damper, and on setting 7 (50%) it has no appreciable effect on slow-turning of the bars, but it's completely eliminated the slight slappers I was getting coming out of high-speed corners over rough tarmac.

I know how they work, and that their effects are designed to come into play only when the bars are being turned at high speed (eg, during a slapper). I've never been able to deliberately turn the bars so fast (eg, during a series of close and tight corners) that my input was hampered in any way.


Sprints although adjustable do not react to the velocity of the damping medium. They are set within the parameters.

The act of turning the bars with a damper attached is forcing a damping medium through a small orrifice with a needle restricting it, this is always going to need extra force to do.

As a little test of which one of us is right or wrong I suggest you tuen the damper up to its highest setting and go for a fast ride. If as I say the damper works all the time you will crash. If it works as you say only when the bars are turned fast you won't. If your damper is working OK I bet you don't get 100yds.

Simple test, just don't bet your life or your bike on it. Wink
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neeeel
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Joined: 28 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
whats a slapper? no jokes about my mum pls Laughing
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
So overall I think I will give them a miss as I find steering perfect on my bike. All that sounds like is a pain in the ass the could cause you to crash your bike unnecessarily. So let me get this right. The take the shudder/slap away from fast acceleration around cornering and pull off! correct?
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
neeeel wrote:
whats a slapper? no jokes about my mum pls Laughing


LOL Laughing

Where the front wheel bounces the tarmac on hard acceleration or when it goes light.
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NSR Mick
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:
I think I'm being misunderstood. I know how dampers work; what I'm saying is that below a certain threshold speed (ie,normal turning useage)


I think theres a difference between my normal usage and yours then Siggi, as mine restricts me on all but the minimum setting.
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:
A slapper is where the front wheel (and thus the handle bars also) flick from full left to full right, repeatedly, at a very high speed (think machine-gun speed). If it's bad enough, and depending on a bike's design, it can force the ends of the handlebars into the sides of the gas tank, hence "tank slapper".




Hmm had that on my bike when me and the Mrs is on it(quite bad once) and when I let the handlebars go it begins to do it(lightly), what causes it?
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lack of weight on the front wheel. Lean forward and raise rear preload.
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi, Sickpup tahnkyou thats just solved two probs I have on my bike. Of course it all makes sense now! Thumbs Up

Thus, steering dampers reduce this action? Thumbs Up Thumbs Down
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Probably not in your case. In fact it could make the problem a lot worse as you are unable to make quick small changes.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 14:43 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had a sprint on my R6 and have an Ohlins on my zx9. On either it is possible to use it on the full setting for spirited riding.
However very little movement is required for countersteering - were you going slow enough that you had to significantly turn the wheel, I suspect you would have a lot more problems.
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
Probably not in your case. In fact it could make the problem a lot worse as you are unable to make quick small changes.



So if I was to increase the level of the rear suspension that would help?

Probably was not going to get a damper as it doesnt sound like much fun. Just did not know what they were.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes increase rear preload when carrying extra weight.
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 14:49 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
cheers bud! Thumbs Up
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Or get a lighter wife. Wink
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ha, I dont think I will fix that bit! Cheeky bugger!
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NSR Mick
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:
I can't imagine where you must be riding...on a scalextric track maybe? Wink Laughing


Thats the way I like them. Wink

Try the bustop at Llandow with your steering damper wound up. Laughing
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G
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Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Siggi wrote:


It's centrifugal force vs lateral momentum (or something)........ and break the equation that way too.

The way I understood it...

A bumpy surface and/or hard acceleration causes the front end to go light. Often aided by steering input from the rider the bars turn a little too far one way and then as the bike goes back down the wheel will naturally try and straighten up. However adding in the 'bump' down, it springs back up while going trying to straighten up and ends up pointing the other way.

A tank slapper occurs when this gets into an oscillation.

Slowing down or braking can make it worse as the front end has more pressure pushing it down.
Accelerating can help prevent it, as you are stopping the front end bouncing so violently.

Keeping the bars loose also helps the bike ride out of it.
Holding the bars tightly can transfer the movement to the rest of the bike.
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NSR Mick
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 27 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's usually bad setup or worn parts / tyres. My NSR tried to kill me when I 1st got it as it had mismatched worn tyres and I hit a white line on the power and it slapped itself over to the opposite gutter before I got it under control. I fitted a pair of new tyres and it's now solid as a rock.

A damper masks a problem not solve it.
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Bishbash
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 28 Nov 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
gsxrmick wrote:
It's usually bad setup or worn parts / tyres.


Dont think it is the tyres as they were replaced and still had the slap. I thought that it was going to be the tyres or wheel balance prob but it was not. Maybe I should lok towards the set up!
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