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Video of 'Thatcham Approved' Chains being cut.

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Quote Me Happy



Joined: 15 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Video of 'Thatcham Approved' Chains being cut. Reply with quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC3hFr8p2ck&mode=related&search=

Note, this was made by Almax who make their own chains but by all accounts they are actually quite good.

There is another video showing someone trying to crop them but I thought as it's made by themselves is not really objective.
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Whosthedaddy
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Its all about physics and levers.

Quite shocking at how easy it is, yet advertised as being as solid as a rock Rolling Eyes
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Rookie
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PostPosted: 12:24 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yeah I watched the Series 3 and 4 video as well, slightly questionable given it was made by them, but they did break the bolt croppers.

Very impressive though, if I ever feel the need for a chain I'd probably get an Almax now. But I prefer alarms and baseball bats really. Wink
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DEN MONKEY
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interesting watch. I wonder what they base the 5 minutes on?

On a lighter note.....fatty looked like he was near to busting his poofer valve when he was on the job. Rolling Eyes So if a pudgy git like that can manage I'd hate to see what somoene with motivation and fitness could break one in.
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Whosthedaddy
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
DEN MONKEY wrote:
Interesting watch. I wonder what they base the 5 minutes on?

On a lighter note.....fatty looked like he was near to busting his poofer valve when he was on the job. Rolling Eyes So if a pudgy git like that can manage I'd hate to see what somoene with motivation and fitness could break one in.


They were making a meal out of it Rolling Eyes If they workedtogether they could have halved the time and really made them look like pants.

5 Mins is probably based on a cutting or grinding wheel, saw or powers of suggestion.
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mooky
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rookie wrote:
But I prefer alarms and baseball bats really. Wink


I understand the sentiment Wink

However, an alarm can be taken out silently with a tazer.

A FO chain and a ground anchor is probably the only thing they cant silently defeat.
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phatstorage
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
mooky wrote:

However, an alarm can be taken out silently with a tazer.


Really? where's the vid for that one?
after watching the vid it doesn't make me want to buy one of their chains (which is obviously why they are doing it), i already have a chain and if the bike has a chain for the most, its a deterrent and let's face it you'd really have to want the bike to do what they just did.

most thieves will walk on the minute they see a flashing red led or a bright yellow lock reminder going to a disc lock cos it just aint worth the hassle.

If they carry this sort of "advertising" on by disproving other manufacturers they may find trading standards wanting to have a look at thier claims of crop proofness (if that's a word) Very Happy
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Ichy
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doesn't help that the chains are loose and lying on the floor. Be harder to get enough leverage if they were fastened properly.
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DEN MONKEY
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
yeah was interesting that they made note that they left the chains loose so to not damage the bike. Might have well just laid the chains on the ground with no bike.
Didnt seem too concerned about the bikes welfare when the chains finally went kaploowy and bits went in every direction at a rate of knots.

Oh well fat boy made it all worth it Embarassed uuuuugghh
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Did Almax have a display at Ally Pally this year? I seem to remember chatting to a lady who looked and sounded a lot like the one in this video - she was doing a similar demonstration there and the results did seem to match what's being shown here. Of course I didn't have a bike then so I wasn't so fussed about securing it.
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palmer
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Laughing they look a right load of gimps
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Zimbo
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
palmer wrote:
Laughing they look a right load of gimps


Ha ha you do realise that both Zanx (in the denim jacket) and the Almax team are members on here? Hope they don't come round and kick your arse!!! Mr. Green
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Zimbo
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
phatstorage wrote:
after watching the vid it doesn't make me want to buy one of their chains (which is obviously why they are doing it), i already have a chain and if the bike has a chain for the most, its a deterrent and let's face it you'd really have to want the bike to do what they just did.

most thieves will walk on the minute they see a flashing red led or a bright yellow lock reminder going to a disc lock cos it just aint worth the hassle.

If they carry this sort of "advertising" on by disproving other manufacturers they may find trading standards wanting to have a look at thier claims of crop proofness (if that's a word) Very Happy


Not true mate, most bikes are stolen at home, often to order, by pro bike thieves who know what they're doing. Disc locks don't slow them down much, no matter how good, they simply unbolt the disc and tape it out the way if they need to wheel the bike, or simply pick the bike up and carry it to their van. No-one but the owner takes any notice of alarms at all, and they often use refrigerated vans to carry the bike away as they're very effective at insulating the alarm noise.

I'm sure Almax would welcome trading standards to come and test their stuff and claims, cos they're not false in any way. They genuiely are virtually impossible to crop.

Last edited by Zimbo on 19:31 - 10 Dec 2006; edited 1 time in total
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palmer
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rolling Eyes
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Misc
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Who leaves there chains that loose anyway? Both my chains are fastened so tight around that you can't even get a finger in there. Which means there's constant pressure on my bike (if someone was to try & crop them) which would result in setting off the alarm.

They didn't want to damage he's bike? No, they would of had a hard time cutting if it was fastened properly.
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phatstorage
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zimbo wrote:


most bikes are stolen at home, often to order, by pro bike thieves who know what they're doing. Disc locks don't slow them down much, no matter how good, they simply unbolt the disc and tape it out the way if they need to wheel the bike, or simply pick the bike up and carry it to their van. No-one but the owner takes any notice of alarms at all, and they often use refrigerated vans to carry the bike away as they're very effective at insulating the alarm noise.

"But are you a bike thief tho"
https://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/m2/nov2005/2/2/000A9F20-E1EE-1382-A0520C01AC1BF814.jpg
You seem to know alot about this sort of thing Wink
as we all know, if teefs want something they will take it and not even a chain will stop them, almax or otherwise.
point i was making was that all security is a deterent for thieves but as i said if they want it they'll take it but you'd need a pretty special bike to warrant this sort of action.

Again i don't see what they are trying to prove by snipping chains and saying "ours is the best", it can be defeated with as much ease if someone wants to, anyone leave thier keys in view of thier letterbox?
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palmer
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PostPosted: 20:11 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
get a brick built tripple garage, with enforced metal plate doors and an alarm system Very Happy


cant get in that with a pair of 2.99 bolt cutters.
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TheDonUK
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
palmer wrote:
get a brick built tripple garage, with enforced metal plate doors and an alarm system Very Happy


cant get in that with a pair of 2.99 bolt cutters.


::Whistles the song from the great escape::
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
palmer wrote:
get a brick built tripple garage, with enforced metal plate doors and an alarm system Very Happy


cant get in that with a pair of 2.99 bolt cutters.


No but i bet I can get in without to much hassle. Cool
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Zimbo
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
phatstorage wrote:
Zimbo wrote:


most bikes are stolen at home, often to order, by pro bike thieves who know what they're doing. Disc locks don't slow them down much, no matter how good, they simply unbolt the disc and tape it out the way if they need to wheel the bike, or simply pick the bike up and carry it to their van. No-one but the owner takes any notice of alarms at all, and they often use refrigerated vans to carry the bike away as they're very effective at insulating the alarm noise.

"But are you a bike thief tho"
https://images.icnetwork.co.uk/upl/m2/nov2005/2/2/000A9F20-E1EE-1382-A0520C01AC1BF814.jpg
You seem to know alot about this sort of thing Wink
as we all know, if teefs want something they will take it and not even a chain will stop them, almax or otherwise.
point i was making was that all security is a deterent for thieves but as i said if they want it they'll take it but you'd need a pretty special bike to warrant this sort of action.

Again i don't see what they are trying to prove by snipping chains and saying "ours is the best", it can be defeated with as much ease if someone wants to, anyone leave thier keys in view of thier letterbox?


No I'm not a bike thief, but I take an interest because it makes it easier to target my own security more effectively. Don't kid yourself, it doesn't need to be a special bike to warrant that sort of attention, a CBR600 is more desirable than an exclusive piece of exotica because there's a huge market for second hand fairings, wheels, engines etc. All security is a deterrent, that's true, but a disclock will put off kids looking for a joyride, not a pro bike thief, so there's no point in relying on it at home. Most pro thieves carry bolt croppers so most chains are just a minor deterrent, as shown in the vid. The Almax can be defeated by an angle grinder but it's noisy and attracts attention, so is a better investment than the other chains shown in the vid. Zanx has made it something of a personal crusade to expose poor performing bike security that claims to be good, he started by being largely responsible for exposing the vulnerability of radial cylinder locks to attack by a simple ballpoint pen, which resulted in their withdrawal from sale by Oxford and others and a free exchange program from Kryptonite. He's involved with Almax because the Oxford / Abus / English Chain / Datatool chans are being sold as able to withstand a five minute sustained attack when they can be cropped in seconds.
The Almax can't be cropped so therefore must be the most effective security . I've known Zanx through Visordown for many years and trust his expertise and judgement in these matters, he spends a lot of time and effort testing and researching these matters.
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thefallenange...
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've seen Angle Grinders at Work and TBH the only way you'll realistically stop anyone from getting anywhere is by going to an Experienced Welder and asking them to make you a chain which is strong enough to withstand an attack for at least 1 minute.

And before you ask the welder i know works with Portable stuff so he'll have a pretty good idea of what would work and what wouldn't.
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phatstorage
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
so what is it that makes them different in build to only show a mark after an attempt where other chains just slice open?
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Misc
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Almax wrote:
Not just RESISTANT but IMPERVIOUS to hand operated bolt croppers!


Zimbo wrote:

Most bikes are stolen at home, often to order, by pro bike thieves who know what they're doing.


If this is the case then don't you think they pro thievs will have more then hand operated at there disposal?
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5v3d3b0
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anyone seen the video when they try and cut the Almax chain? Couldn't do it. The cutter got bent...
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phatstorage
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 10 Dec 2006    Post subject: Reply with quote
Svedebo wrote:
Anyone seen the video when they try and cut the Almax chain? Couldn't do it. The cutter got bent...


most chains are 10-14mm i believe the almax seems to be 19mm.

Maybe it was just too big for the cropper's head.

But i would love to know the difference in metals between say the english chain and the almax considering the price difference isn't huge.
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