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| instigator |
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instigator
Super Spammer
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
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 Posted: 16:01 - 15 Jan 2007  Post subject: |
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| froggeh |
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froggeh
World Chat Champion
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 16:29 - 15 Jan 2007 Post subject: |
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| craigie b wrote: |
I'd disagree with that. I'm sure many people have seen the councils try and clean up pikey estates by rebuilding them with the best of furnishings only for the people whom were moved out to move back in and then systematically bring the estate back down to the level that it was currently at prior to the rebuild. Attempting to help them only further increases their dependence on the state. Forcing them to stay on further education, similarly, will not necessarily raise their level of expectations to better themselves but make them more dependant on the state as they let themselves be brainlessly herded from one year to the next.
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Ok you're confusing the issue by going on about gypsies? Not sure what percentage they make up of the 16-18 population, but it's a different arguement.
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At present we have a system that actively encourages people not to better themselves.
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This is patently not true.
It's pretty obvious to me that if you work hard at sometghing in this country, then you will be better off.
People like Richard Branson, Duncan Bannatyne, and some of these folk from secret millionare among others, have all made it through hard work.
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By removing that means we would be doing more good than ill as it would force them to help themselves.
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You would honestly remove benefits? And you honestly believe that the sort of people who ditched school in the 1st place would take this as an incentive to "Better themselves" ?
Without resorting to crime?
Seriously?
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Competition in industry is seen as a good thing as it encourages companies to evolve and develop to stay ahead of the competition, or else they go bust. Yet in personal development in this country, you can do just fine by living of the state. |
Not really. There are some oft quoted examples, which make good tabloid fare, such as the wife swap family, but in general you don't live an extravagant lifestyle on benefit, unless you resort to crime.
I know a few people in this situation for various reasons, and they either have very little to spend, live in horrible areas or sell drugs to top up the small amount they do get. You reduce that to zero and just see what would happen. |
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| craigie b |
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craigie b
Citizen Smith
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
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| Posted: 17:20 - 15 Jan 2007 Post subject: |
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Frog:
| Quote: | Ok you're confusing the issue by going on about gypsies? Not sure what percentage they make up of the 16-18 population, but it's a different arguement. |
Right you said.....
| Quote: | A civilised society will never let anyone starve. All that will happen if you don't pay someone, is that crime will increase, as they will be forced to steal. |
You directly state that if we don't give people what they need (completely different from giving them the ability to earn what they need) they would turn to theft.
From personal experience the only people who turn to theft to fund a living are chavs, hence the pikey reference (yes, there are exceptions to the rule, before you start  ).
Now without looking at the stats of 16 - 18 years olds who leave school, a large percentage would be chavs with little or no interest in further education. But I concur that the above is just my opinion.
| Quote: | This is patently not true. |
Well done for supplying me with three examples of people who have done superbly. If you wish I will go onto Google map and circle the 2/3rds of the nation who do no work and seemingly have no interest in it either.
Worth noting is Branson didn't have further education, it was hard graft that made his fortune.
| Quote: | You would honestly remove benefits? And you honestly believe that the sort of people who ditched school in the 1st place would take this as an incentive to "Better themselves" ?
Without resorting to crime?
Seriously? |
This style of system works in other countries, you are forced to do something about your situation. It is far better than becoming a victim of the system where you spend your life believing you are entitled to state sponsored benefits.
Are you condoning paying spongers to not commit crime?
Finally I would suggest that there are obvious candidates in this country who do need help and do deserve benefits. Most obviously are our old people. I agree with benefits in the short term, but long term benefit payment (unless good reason) is simply sponging of the people who want to better themselves.
| Quote: | Not really. There are some oft quoted examples, which make good tabloid fare, such as the wife swap family, but in general you don't live an extravagant lifestyle on benefit, unless you resort to crime. |
It tends to be the spongers who can make a good living off our benefits and the genuinely needy who suffer under them.
Anyway, I really do not believe we need to keep the uninterested in further education. Maybe if the teachers did a better job the kids could leave at 16 with basic maths and english skills. |
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| froggeh |
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froggeh
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| stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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Posted: 20:35 - 15 Jan 2007  Post subject: |
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Perhaps the problem is more with the English education system.
I could have left the Scottish system at 16 with five highers and eight standard grades under my belt. Enough to get into nearly any degree course other than law and medicine. I'll stress that I never skipped a year.
I'd done a five year vocational degree course by the time I was 21 under the Scottish system.
What the hell do you lot actually do at school  |
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| TheShaggyDA |
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TheShaggyDA
Repost Police
Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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| phil_DT |
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phil_DT
Nova Slayer
Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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| Posted: 00:33 - 17 Jan 2007 Post subject: |
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well im 16 and in my last year of school, i personally think this is a bad idea because all the immature clowns just bring the level of learning down. I see it every day, guaranteed some fool in my class will disrupt the lesson causing the teacher to stop teaching just to sort them out! that takes away from my learning time. with the option of sixth form you only get the people who want to learn staying on and the clowns drop out. myself im leaving in july to pursue HGV service technician apprenticeship. 
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1992 DT80MX with Gianelli zorst and Mallosi Carb. Goes through engines faster than tyres..... |
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| froggeh |
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froggeh
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| Posted: 01:51 - 17 Jan 2007 Post subject: |
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| killa |
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killa
Won't Shut Up
Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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| JBurrows88 |
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JBurrows88
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| Posted: 22:25 - 20 Jan 2007 Post subject: |
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Just go to college!
the waste of Space pupils that dont want to have to go on doal decide its easier to fook about at college till they are 19 on EMA.
After 1 year they WILL get chucked out and in the scond year you find you have more matur(ish  ) students. Only problem now is that wont happen so just going to be FUCKING alfil.
They will also lower grade boundaries so that these jokes to society can get a grade in media studies, etc. This means that AS and A2 levels will become the equlivent to GCSE's  and GCSE's to SAT's!!!
It will cost the gov' too much and wont help people that have worked hard in the couple years before these are introduced!!
I wanted to teach in later years (i know, how stupid, etc.) but not sure anymore! Cant see myself lasting that long without hiting kids, lol
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| JBurrows88 |
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JBurrows88
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| Racheldawn |
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Racheldawn
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 19 years, 220 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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