MOT - KE100 with no battery

[MarJay]

Hi dudes,

After finally receiving the keys for my KE100 (its a long story) I have looked under the seat.

No battery. Hmm. There is some wiring under there, that is extremely neat. Strange...

So I unscrew the sparkplug, put the key in the ignition and switch it to 'on'. Holding the plug against the engine I kick 'er over. Spark, and plenty of it. So I put the plug back in and G kicks her over a few times. She starts.

And the lights work...

My question is... will it pass an MOT like that? It normally has a 6v battery under the seat, so I'm not that surprised that the lights work when the engine is running, but obviously it won't work when the engine is off...

... Also, I tried the indicators, and the left one comes on but doesn't flash, and the right one doesn't work at all. Is that likely to just be a blown bulb?

I find it extremely fascinating that this bike has been modified to run without the battery, and yet the wiring loom appears unbutchered!
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Kickstart]

Hi

Not that uncommon. Could just lob a battery in there, but some people just put a resistor in there instead (to stop it blowing bulbs).

From the MOT manual:-

On machines without a battery or with an insufficiently charged battery, it will be necessary to run the engine.

So the lights should not cause an MOT problem. Indicators might, but if the bike is pre August 1986 then it does not need them.

All the best

Keith
____________________
Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[McJamweasel]

It will pass an MOT (assuming you get the indicators working), the lights don't need to work when the engine is off, indeed many scooters are wired that way anyway.
____________________
BCF: Be yourself, just don't be an arse.

[MarJay]

[finpos]

Those things have been around, virtually unchanged, since at least the early 80's, possibly longer.

It should be fine as it is bar the issue with the indicators, but I think it may be more than a bulb or wiring issue. Try revving the nuts off the engine, see if they start flashing. I think that the problem might be that at idle there's just not enough spare current being generated to run the indicators (the battery would normally help out this situation). Problem obviously worsened by having brake lights on etc.

finpos.

[garth]

Doesn't the brake light work off the (non-existant) battery?
____________________
You ain't a has been if you never was

[Kickstart]

[Blau Zedong]

As above the lights and ingnition are powered direct off the magneto anyway. Howver running long term without a battery will put lots of load on the genny and regulator, possibly burning it out. A 6V batter will be cheap as chips, or there are "battery eliminator" things which act like a battery as soon as the engine is running, giving you steady current for indicators, brake light etc, as well as giving your charging system some load.
____________________
18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[stinkwheel]

Mind you, they don't really need a battery. The coils self-excite, the headlamps run on direct AC straight from the alternator.

The battery charging will usually be a single phase passed through a crude diode rectifier which runs the neutral light, brake light and flashers. The main problem with doing away with the battery is that it acts as a voltage regulator. No battery and the flasher/brake light bulbs tend to go pop at higher revs.

If someone has connected something in where the battery is supposed to be ( a capacitor?), this will probably do the job. I would be inclined to give it a whirl. Just check the voltage across the battery terminals doesn't get too high.

[MarJay]

I think I'll just get a battery. The only trouble is, I'm not 100% certain which wires were the old battery terminals...

Hopefully I'll work it out. I'm guessing that the reason the indy's don't work is because there was no battery to regulate the voltage to the flasher units (going on what Stinkwheel said).

Cheers for the help guys!

I'll be able to get the thing back to a rideable state as soon as I get a new lower steering head bearing. The hard part is going to be getting it to a MOTable state however...

I also need to replace the fork seals, which should be a trifle of a job considering they aren't cartridge forks. I'm not 100% certain what actually does the damping inside, but the haynes manual says I just need to remove the top cap, empty the oil, remove the dust seal cap, remove the circlip holding the fork seals in and pull out the stanchion.

Sounds a bit easy to me...

I'm enjoying this project!
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[stinkwheel]

Well, the big clue for the battery positive is it is probably a red wire you're looking for (this has been the case on nearly every bike I've worked on, had an odd brown one though), which will hopefully still have an inline fuse in it. Your haynes should tell you though.

Or, if you can find the rectifier, follow the red wire coming out of it. This should either join the wire running to the battery positive or be connected direct to the battery positive.

I'd be tempted to just make up an earth strap for the negative. Kawasaki often use black with a white or yellow tracer for the earth wiring.

Don't overestimate the level of damping to expect. The spring might just be sitting in the oil (a lot of small, basic bikes use ATF instead of fork oil). I once had a bike that you just greased the springs on (try explaining that to an MOT tester who thinks the dust covers are leaky fork seals ).

The boinginess is part of the fun and makes them easy to pop-up onto the back wheel.

[bish777]