Web design training/education

[pa_broon74]

Hey folks.

Looking for some advice; the bossman wants me to learn web design, specifically web based application development. I've been casting about looking at college, Uni and private training organisations for suitable training. The thing is, I have no idea what I need to know before I start one of these courses. (Plus, you need a degree to work out what degree you need to do on these Uni websites, they are un-navigable... Although, that might just be me.)

So were talking designing web based apps using PHP or ASP (which is best?) I've been told Visual Studio is the way forward but already have some experience with Dreamweaver.

I'll be getting training on SQL scripting (the apps will be database driven.)

Any suggestions gratefully received, please assume that I'd be starting at the very beginning

Ta folks

[FreshAL]

Wow, that's quite a lot of training for your employer to provide.

What industry are you in, any background in programming or software design at all? Will there be other people at work to mentor and guide you, or are you on your own?

You might want to start by contacting your local college and seeing what courses they provide. Post links to prospectus here and I'm sure you'll get some feedback.

Designing and developing commercial grade web apps isn't something you can learn on a 1 week course.

If this is just for a one-off project, can you describe the project?

[m99dws]

You have a lot of work ahead, PHP, ASP might as well just add pure .NET and AJAX and do it all!

Good luck starting from scratch!

[pa_broon74]

Hey.

Thanks for the replies. Basically in the first instance I'd be designing a small web app to keep track of tender applications. I downloaded a program called DBqwiksite and at first glance it looks good.

It lets you set up you database (in this case one table with 7 or 8 datafields) You pick a design template and it generates all the code for you. Thing is; it doesn't work! Grrr. Its written by a Thai company so their help files are somewhat, well, rubbish.

All the app would do is allow multiple users to add or edit records and other users to just view them, (DBqwiksite does this and its easy to set up log in with different levels of permissions.) I can even publish the pages, but when I try to put the database up, the pages don't connect to it. I'm pretty good with Dreamweaver, but only in terms of html, so I can't use it fault find the DBqwiksite pages.

I work for the NHS (hence all the training, heh!) in Application Support, up till now all I've done is forwarded on faults to the software suppliers but they're wanting me to do more here.

I kinda knew that it wouldn't be a 5 day course but they seem happy to send me to Uni or College, I just can't find a suitable course and the people they have manning their phones could benefit from some education themselves.

Thanks again.

[pa_broon74]

[GodzGift]

Database development will pay the best in any future career so, good choice

[feef]

If he's asking you to do the...

design (layout and graphics)
programming (coding and application development)
AND the SQL (database design and SQL development and tuning)

then I hope he's paying you VERY well..

All three are very different, and all have their own caveats.. I've yet to find ANYONE that can do all 3 very well.

I can do application design and development, and specialise in databases, but I'm crap at the layout/graphics stuff.

A full end-to-end solution isn't easy to do by yourself, and while it's good he recognises you need training, it does sound like a MASSIVE project to be taken on by one person.

I always find businesses hugely underestimate what's involved in a proper application/database driven website.

a
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[craigie b]

you want an open source content management system that fits the criteria set out by yiour goals.

I personally have started using Joomla, which is free opens source database driven website that can be modified to meet many different situations.

If you have no experience fo web development then I prsonally think your looking at a couple of years before you would jhave the skill set available to partake in such a project from scratch.

First thing to learn is basic HTMl. As long as you know the basics its easy to modify peoples code to meet your own ends. As for php etc then you need a book along the lines of a dummies guide.

Also bear in mind the software required to setup s adatabase driven site. I've been working in computer graphics for the past 7 years and I still cannot setup msql, php and apache to get a webserver runnign locally on my machine.

To do from scratch, IMO, would be nigh on impossible unless you find a package (free or otherwise) that ofers the functionality pre built in.


www.joomla.org for a decent CMS.

I now shy away from dreamweaver also, finding it to heavy and resource intensive for what in efect becomes a glorified text editor. Get firefox and the following extensions....codetech, fireftp, webdeveloper 1.3 and the internet eplorer tab. The latter allows you to view webpages in internet explorer from a firefox tab, meaning you can use your web browser to develop entire sites and check them on the most popular browsers.

[pa_broon74]

Aye...

My boss isn't an IT person, he's a Project Manager in Health. This isn't the first time they've asked for something thinking; 'ocht, he'll do it, how hard can it be...'

Agreed; learning everything will take a couple of years. I'm quite happy to do this, it works in my favour in the long run. But no, I'm not getting paid loads, I figured if I could work this out then I could hit them for a big pay rise, or bugger off else where.

I know my limitations, i'm ok with HTML but as you say, mysql is beyond me, we use Crystal Reports here which is little better. Its frustrating because I can get the test site (built with this DBqwik site software) to work on my desktop, it just won't work on the intranet.

I've also discovered that trial and error doesn't really cut it in this field, you can just about do it with excel or word, even html pages. But not PHP or ASP.

Anyway, I hate computers, I fell into this by accident. I'll persevere cause changing lanes (as it were) would mean a pretty huge pay cut.

I will look at the firefox stuff and joomla though. Always been interested in web design... (I dream of making millions from a sleazy internet dating site )

Ta All

[Dom]

If you're looking for a decent app as a base then I thoroughly recommend Expression Engine (www.expressionengine.com).

I've been developing sites with it pretty much exclusively over the last 6 months or so and it's amazing what it can do out of the box.

Even then you're going to need to learn PHP if you want to expand on the functionality a great deal and really you need to know your way around mySQL as well.

As far as courses are concerned I'm not aware of any worthwhile uni courses but there are tons of great books out there which are very useful. If your work will cover those costs then you've got all you need imo.

I'm a full time freelance web designer / developer and I generally do design, code and everything in between, though I have been specialising more in the development side of things of late. I've never done a course on any of them in my entire life; purely self-taught.

Though feef's right about an end-to-end solution being very difficult it's perfectly feasible if you're willing to devote the time required to build up your skills. In truth though it's taken me five years to get to where I am skills-wise and I totally agree that it's a huge undertaking to ask of someone with no previous experience.

I know the NHS is a state but in all honesty this seems like the perfect candidate for a bit of outsourcing to me. I say let them make their mistake and get as much out of it as you personally can.
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[bob-a-job]

If i was you I would find the best course.. and get your bosses to pay for it, once you don it then quit and get a well paid induistry job!

TBH - I hope that your boss has looked at the cost of the courses and then the cost of outsorucing it. If i was him i would outsource it, or at least hire someone with the knowledge already. IF it's just small projects then its a waste of money training you up and if it's a big job then you'll never cope with it (no offence intended)...

[Dom]

I think if you were going to specifically focus on the programming or database side of things then a course could be really valuable, but to my knowledge there's no good general web development course out there that means anything.

As far as web dev in general is concerned, it's all about your portfolio.
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