Advice needed please : ever returned a second-hand car??

[Duckyboos]

Long post warning...

I thought I'd found the perfect replacement for my beloved 306 which was written off three months ago. I've been looking around for ages and I finally found one at a dealership, a fine looking 306 TD with 55K on the clock and not a scratch on it. The bloke at the dealership took us for a spin in it, although neither Tom nor I drove it. It sounded okay – for an 8 year old car – so I put a deposit down on it last week, Dad put the rest into my bank account yesterday and I went to pick it up today.

Now before I go on, I'm expecting a fair degree of heckling over the fact that I didn't have someone mechanically-minded check it over first. I asked the guy about it and he said he'd been there nearly 35 years (which he has) and only 1 in 10 of his customers commission a separate vehicle inspection, and none have ever reported any problems. He doesn’t do warranties, because he isn’t a garage.

Now for the annoying bit – it broke down on the way home, and wouldn’t start again. I had to get the b/f (who I was following home) to tow it back to the house. It wasn’t out of fuel, because we topped it up on the way. I ‘phoned the chap at the garage when it first happened and he was all very sympathetic, but he said he couldn’t do anything about it today (being a Sunday) and that he’d call me in the morning to sort out picking it up again. Since then, Tom’s had a look around the top of the engine and found a load of oil leaking around. This has wigged me out terribly and I certainly don’t want to be driving this around – it looks like I’m going to have to leave the 306 dream behind after all and spend a bit more money on something reliable. I’ve done a bit of reading around this afternoon, and it seems I’m afforded a fair bit of protection from the 1979 Sale of Goods Act, especially as we told them immediately that there was a problem, and that the problem obviously existed when we purchased it…”Under the Sale of Goods Act, goods, including second-hand cars, must be of satisfactory quality and reasonably fit for their purpose.” …and… “If you can show the goods to be faulty or misdescribed, you have for a short time after purchase a right to reject the goods and get a refund of the purchase price”. So Tom called them back and politely told them this wasn’t acceptable, that it clearly wasn’t fit for use, and that we were ‘rejecting’ the goods and wanted a refund. Yer man said we’d have to speak to the gaffer tomorrow morning – that he wasn’t in any position to make this decision. I’ve since followed this up with a fax confirming the conversation and advising that we’ll be in touch tomorrow.

I’m no mechanic, and I do a lot of motorway mileage and I need to be able to rely upon the car. I didn’t spend a fortune on a car because I spent my savings on a bike and all the extras, hence me having to go to Dad for some pennies. I haven’t told Dad yet, he warned me to have it checked out before I bought it and it would make for a very difficult conversation. I’m leaving it to Tom to make the call tomorrow morning, I’m a bit too soft in these situations and he’ll keep his cool better. In the meantime however, I’m worried that I’m going to be stuck with this thing and a future of hellish repair bills and AA recoveries.

Has anyone else ever had to return a second-hand car? Any ideas on what the outcome of this might be? Any advice at all??

Go easy on me, I know I've made a boo boo...

[craigie b]

As long as it wasn't a private sale then you can return the car....otherwise 'let the buyer be ware'. I suppose in practice the guy isn't going to want to accept back a turkey and was probably glad to see the back of it so I would expect him to try it on and refuse you the cash back. That being the case I'd threaten him with legal action.

[Sparks!]

I don't understand your post, first you say you found the car at a dealership then you say he can't do warranties because he isn't a garage?

If it was sold to you from a business, then you should be able to return it. if it was a private sale then you haven't a leg to stand on, "sold as seen" as they say...
____________________
Current Toys: 06 Yamaha WR250F | Nissan 350Z GT | Tech 4 Homes

[craigie b]

Maybe sells cars but doesn't have onsite garage facilities like mechanics, ramps etc

[Duckyboos]

Sparks!: Sorry, it's a car dealership, but not a 'mechanical' garage. He just buys up and sell used cars.

[lukamon]

thats a dealership then
and, he sold you a car that he almost certainly knew was a dog.

if he does'nt co-operate get trading standards in.
____________________
killa wrote: Im an ass man myself

[Drew]

a dealership that doesn't do warranties

[anders]

If its a car dealer, by LAW they must supply a 3 month minium warranty by default.
____________________
Call me Mr. Blobby

[st3v3]

It's a dealership, as mentioned if they give you any trouble, hint trading standards at them, if that don't do the trick, contact trading standards and inform them of your situation. Maybe Citizens advice beuroe(sp?) too.
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done

[veeeffarr]

[anders]

[sickpup]

[veeeffarr]

[Duckyboos]

The update on this:

Tom spoke to the proprietor of the dealership this afternoon and was told "we don't do refunds". So he said "your call chief, but you'll have the missus on the 'phone in a bit..."

I called him shortly after to put it to him that I wasn't asking for some sort of favour, and that I was actually exercising my rights under the consumer legislation available to me and I wanted this sorting before the end of the week so that I could find another buy which I could rely on to get me home. He didn't say a word until I'd finished, and then muttered something about his rights, that he has offered to fix it and give it back to me. I said that I wasn't happy with that, and that whilst I thought it was a lovely-looking car, that clearly everything wasn't right with it and it wasn't as "immaculate and reliable" as his advert had promised. I told him that by all means take it and fix it but sell it on to someone else who can take a risk with it. I haven't bought a car that I know would need attention, I paid slightly over the odds for a lower-than-average model of my 'favouritest motor' so that I could get some use out of it.

Then I spoke to a nice chap called Mike at Consumer Direct (an arm of the W/Yorks Trading Standards Office) and he basically backed up everything I said... that I was entitled to have fair use out of it for a reasonable time, and that I was absolutely within my rights to demand a refund, it having given up the ghost so soon after puchase.

I know I'm probably going to have a wee fight on my hands. I've got to write another letter tonight, giving him 7 days to collect and refund. If he doesn't come back to us tomorrow morning, I'll fire it off in via Special Delivery. The chap at Trading Standards give me a case reference number and told me to come back to him if this doesn't work, and they'll 'intervene'.

[st3v3]

good luck
____________________
Roger wrote: Women don't get damp for clingy puppies. Get some better happy pills, hit the gym & buy a medallion the size of a dinner plate. Job done

[pwntifex]

Keep us posted, ja?
____________________
the warped one: This is a follow up from the thread 'my willy hurts'

[Duckyboos]

Ooh well... today Tom 'phoned to say he was at the house waiting for yer man to pick the car up. I 'phoned the dealiership to ask them what they wanted me to do with the V5C and MOT docs etc, because I didn't want to keep hold of them lest it be misconstrued that I was expecting the car back again. He said "you'd better keep hold of them for now, until we find out what's wrong with it" and I replied "I'm not interested in what the problem is, MY problem is that you sold me a car that can't make it to 'B'. I won't be accepting the car back, so what do you want me to do with the docs?" and so he told me to put them in the car.

Clearly he still intends to fix/botch whatever the problem is and try and make me take it back. Part of me doesn't want some enormous battle, but the other part of me doesn't want to be stranded miles from nowhere because I trusted this car, or this guy's glowing description of it. Anyway. I sent my letter via Special Delivery, he'll have it by 12pm tomorrow, and I'll wait to see what happens next.

In the meantime, I'd promised my folks dahn sarf that I'd visit this weekend, it's my birthday and I haven't seen them since February. Looks like I'm hiring a car for the whole weekend

[Resurrection]

Stick to your guns on this.

How many other folks you reckon he has humped and dumped?

Remember YOUR in the right so grow some stones and dig in.

Res
____________________
ZX9r

[iooi]

Thinking about this you really should have towed it straight back to the garage. Might have fixed his mind on a refund a lot quicker if other people were around looking at cars.

Also warranties are often how these places make a lot of their profit, so the fact he's not offering them is mighty strange. You know the type i mean that cover everything bar the bit that brakes down......

Come on name and shame the dealer.... If he's a good un and refunds its good press for him, if not we can all avoid him.
____________________
Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[craigie b]

Name and shame...Name and shame!

[Duckyboos]

I've been wondering about the etiquette of naming and shaming them on a public forum... and I thought I'd give them the opportunity to receive my letter today and act on it, but they haven't. So for the public record, they're GC Car Sales of Idle Road, Bradford.

I had a chat with one of the solicitors at work this afternoon, just to clarify my position on this, and he's all for rolling up outside the garage on his loud bastard bike (a 35-yr old CB750) and have a little word in his shell-like. Perhaps a better idea would be a precisely-worded letter inviting him to the Small Claims Court, that is, after my 7-day last chance letter expires on Tuesday.

[JonB]

What about threatening with trading standards?

As it is a dealership as said you are entitled to a 3 year warranty.

This is why I generally prefer paying a little extra for that bit of back-up and i'm dead glad I bought my 106 from a dealer as it went wrong within 2 weeks, but it is now sorted.

I'm sure you will get a refund.
____________________
Be careful whose advice you buy, but, be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it?s worth.

[Duckyboos]

Now... I think we've hit the rough. I hadn't heard back from him by this afternoon and worried that perhaps he hadn't had my letter I called and spoke to the gaffer. They've 'repaired' the car and it's 'all fine'. I didn't ask him to repair the car, but he did, and now he's expecting me to take it back. I told him my concerns remained and the fact that I hadn't even made it home had shattered my confidence in both him and his wares, and that my intentions remained too - that I wanted my pennies back. He said he'd spoke to the TS and that they've acknowledged rights on either side - mine for a refund of monies paid, and his (apparently) the right to repair it (although, I thought, not without my instruction).

Anyways. I told him I'd be going back to TS and he didn't seem to care. He said I was being a 'silly little girl' about it and that I wasn't in a good position, with him having both my money and the car.

I called the TS back and asked for it to be referred to the big guys for further review (not the 'Consumer Advice' arm who I'd been speaking to so far) - I should hear back within 5 days.

Now this guy laughed when I said I'd be engaging a solicitor and taking him to the Small Claims office. He said he hoped I had plenty of time 'cos he's going on holiday next week for 4 months... he said he'd make me wait, and I said 'fine, and so I'll make you pay', and that's where it was left.

I've also been speaking to one of the solicitors at work about it. Whilst he thinks I've a fair-ish chance of sorting this, he's also a bit of a peacemaker and doesn't think that personally, he would fight it any further. However if I wan't, he'll help me, and said I should first write a 'Letter Before Action' and cc him into it (he's a partner of the firm).

And now I'm starting to wondering whether I'd be better off just accepting the repair on his word and letting it drop...

[anders]

It seems you have gone into a petty argument, and to be frank YOU arent helping this situation, you have in fact made it worse, instead of being nice and trying to resolve it all you have done is threats and given him a hard time.

So now I will be honest, he sounds dodgy, I doubt you will ever get your money back to be honest.
____________________
Call me Mr. Blobby

[craigie b]

well, if you were to be open to negotiation, you could suggest that you would take the car back after you have had it inspected by an independent mechanic at his expense.

Its the law, he has to refund you since he sold you a car that was not fit for purpose. I personally would want the money back. He obviously knows your in the right but doesn't want to let go of your cash.

I have dealt with similar landlords and TBH once the official bodies get involved they cough up quicker than anything rather than get fined. If he cares abut his business he will succumb, but at present he will try and bluff you off so you become hesitant and despondent and just accept the car.

To be honest, he sounds like a right c*nt in need of a kicking.