For the Photographers [film/digital rant]

[pwntifex]

OK: How many of you still shoot with film?

I have found myself steadily amassing a collection of film cameras (primarily 35mm SLRs, it must be said), lenses and accessories over the past few years, despite the prevalence of digital media.

It has gotten to the point where I cannot stand to shoot with my D80s, so frustrated do I get with its flimsiness, lack of ergonomic acumen (read: electronic faffery) and generally poor picture quality compared to my 35mm slrs (though this is subjective).

The price of digital is exorbitant; £750 got me a D80s and 18-55mm f3.5-5.6G ED lens, the former of which is still considered 'entry-level', and the latter simply poor. Yet I was able to pick up a mint Nikon F3HP, Nikkor 50mm f1.4, Nikkor 70-210mm f4-5.6 AF and MD-4 Motor Drive for just under £200, which wouldn't even buy me a good used D200 body, never mind anything entering the 'professional' sector. For the price of a new D2X body, you could buy several 35mm SLRs and lenses and a complete Mamiya 645 kit/possibly an older Rollei TLR of your choosing.

Yet it seems that film is being relatively forsaken—I have to buy my medium format film over the internet, and the only 35mm slide film available at my local 'specialist' is Sensia 400 (it's not bad film, but I'd like to see Provia and Velvia up there, or at least have some kind of a choice). Film seems to be seen as a 'student tool', the sort of thing one uses to work up to digital (which in itself is not a bad idea; seems that everyone with an EOS 350D is suddenly a professional photographer these days; but why relegate it so?).

What are your thoughts?
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the warped one: This is a follow up from the thread 'my willy hurts'

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[pwntifex]

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[Minky_monkey]

Unfortunately for me, as a total photography learner, I find digital an absolute Godsend. I`d have so many wasted shots on film it would cost me a fortune.

I`ve invested in some serious kit lately including a canon 70-200 f4 L IS lens, it`s absolutely stunning. So sharp.

I love the fact I can sod about to my hearts content and immediately see it I`ve got a decent picture. Not sure whether digital is behind film now, alot depends on the kit however, certainly for black and white shots, film has the edge.

Mind you, if you`ve got the know how, there must be a certain thrill about getting your images back! And as you say the equipment costs are lower! There`s a few guys on the talkphotography forum that have gone back to film, just to show they`ve still got the knack!

[Minky_monkey]

Is it me, or are there too many !`s in that last paragraph?

[Dave ett]

As a pro photographer, my Dad went digital as it first took off, and has never regretted it.

It is far more convenient for the customers too, who can leave with pictures in their grubby mits, and their money in your tin.

No more posting out proofs either, just whack up low res images on the net and watch the orders roll in.

Agreed the latest D1 is a tad expensive, but if you liken it to a van or any other work tool, then it is no more expensive. And 200mm F1.8 lenses aren't exactly cheap to manufacture either!

I have a Knica Minolta Dimage Z3, with a 12x optical zoom and enough Mp to print superb A3's. It's small enough to take anywhere too.

For serious stuff I have a Canon 10D, though it rarely gets taken out because it is so large and heavy but then it's a pro camera, and the build quality is top notch.

Film will die out altogether in the next ten years I suspect, since top end digi camera's are now pushing 12Mp.

When a memory card holds a hundred + shots compared to 36 on a film, and changing a card takes seconds in broad daylight, as opposed to minutes hunched over, it's easy to see why film will be resigned to history.

Not forgetting the ease of taking one picture, and printing one picture, rather than having to finish the film, and awaiting it's return from the developer.

Sell all those relics while they're still worth something!
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Dave E.

[Minky_monkey]

We did a group visit to Wisley RHS a couple of months back, there was only five of us.

We had lunch a put all the cameras on the table. Sitting there looking at them, we totalled it up. There was about 12grand there. And that was without what was in the bags.

Mad money. Mind you one of the lads had a mk2 1Ds with a 2.8L 70-200 IS bolted on it. More money than sense.....

[divuk83]

I moved from a 35mm SLR to a Digital a few years ago. I would say from an amateur point of view (ie someone who knows nothing and doesn't believe in reading instructions) its a good move to make. I hated waiting for my film to be developed and I usually just scanned them into the PC anyway so the move to digital saved me time and money. The main advantage to digital is being able to be more creative and learn more about the cameras settings. Being able to see what the picture looks like instantly and learn what settings work or not is really good. I'm not overly keen (or good) at tweaking pics in photoshop however its nice to be able to make little changes to improve pics, though at the same time it is posible to overcook them using the computer and make them look even worse.

While I would agree with you that if you know what your doing it does take more skill to use a 35mm SLR, I still prefer my DSLR for the above reasons.

Also I don't think comparing the D80's kit lens to some decent lenses on a decent SLR is a fair comparison.

Just my

Dave

[Silver]

[Minky_monkey]

Too right!

I had a play with the 1Ds Mk2 when we went out. What a beast of a camera. Quite nicely balanced when fitted with the 2.8 though.

I`ve got a 350D, which I`m looking to upgrade to either a 30D or it`s replacement or if the funds stretch nicely a 5D. I do love Canon gear though.

[Silver]

I've got so used to my 1D MkII that my girlfriend's 350D feels like a toy!

[Dave ett]

[divuk83]

[stinkwheel]

There is one aspect of digital photography where it lags WAY behind film and as far as I can see, always will.

That issue is in permanance.

Think about it and tell me honestly, will you be able to sit down with your grandchildren in 30/40 years time and show them the digital photos of what you got up to when you were young?

I was discussing this with an archaeologist friend of mine. They still shoot everything on film. It gives you a much more permanant record of what actually happened.

Some of the issues are obvious, file formats are going to change. Do you reckon a computer in 30 years time will know what a JPEG is? Bet it doesn't.

Then there is the problem that computers break. How old is your computer? Have you got all the pictures off your last computer on it? Bet you don't, either because it went tits-up and you lost the lot or you couldn't be arsed shifting them all over.

The JPEG format is another problem. Most people are using it, it is not loss free. Repeated copying will see picture quality deteriorate.

"Ahh, but I backup my pictures." Yeah? What on, a CD or DVD? Remember 5.25" floppy discs? Reckon if I had some you would be able to get the data off them?

Even if you could, reckon it would be intact? CDs are nowhere near as permanent as they were first made out to be, especially writeable ones. I have some with pictures on from when I was at college about 10 years ago and they're falling to bits. I wont even put them in my CD drive because they'll jam it up with crap.

I do however have slide photographs of my Grandmother as a little girl some 85 years ago.

My archaeologist friend is worried that there is going to be a massive hole in the historical record thanks to digital media.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Kickstart]

Hi

I am not sure that 35mm images are better quality than digital. Not that impressed with the quality from film. Too grainy. Fun to play with sometimes and I do like playing around in the dark room.

While film stuff is cheap that is because it is in giveaway terratory. Nobody wants it, even pro spec film bodies.

Current best price for a D80 with an 18-55 lense is £568.99 (£485.99 for the body, £83 for the lense). Think the cheapest film Nikon body at the moment (well, only current one) is the F6 at £1295.

Digital has many advantages for me. Cost is one. Shooting track days I can shoot a hideous amount in a day. Something like 150k in the last 15 months.

Also the ability to try things out. I have shot bikes undr the Dunlop bridge at Donny, turning the shutter speed down to 1/50 (on bikes doing well over 100mph). Inevitably a poor success rate, but worth if with essentially free shots on digital.

Also I did some playing setting up a shoot of a bike a few weeks ago. Using a massively overexposed background to isolate the bike in the foreground (here. Took me quite a few attempts to get it right. Not sure I could have managed to get it right without a lot more time with film.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Minky_monkey]

[Silver]

Just because I'm bored...

[Kickstart]

[stinkwheel]

[ali-b]

I had amassed a vast quantity of film stuff over the years (I started at school), traded it all in for my first digital a couple of years ago and never looked back. The convenience of it just makes it. Just the fact that you can change ISO settings picture by picture if you want to is a winner (I know some film cameras have compensation settings for 'the wrong film' but I'd rather have the right film)

I do backup all my pictures, both on a raid array (15 disks) and optical...and knowing the limitations of optical, these get refreshed on a rolling basis (I use a backup program to automate all this -just have to feed it disks ).

I also keep prints of pictures I really like, but I don't go to Boots to get them...anyone near Soho should check these guys out...

https://www.allinlondon.co.uk/directory/1285/2797.php

...as they've been really helpful during the time I've been using them.

Its a bit of a no-brainer these days, sensors are getting better and better

A.

[Hetzer]

[Kickstart]