petrol mix up , solution? ** edited* crankshaft problem

[halo123.]

just as an update , two weeks later i i still havent found the problem . But i have now started to strip the bike completely down so as to inspect each part etc .I am starting to think i bought a piece of crap.
will keep you all updated
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Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours

[iooi]

Have you tried removing the spark plugs one at a time and running the engine to see if it sounds worse ? This would help to point to a cyl if that is the problem.

When does the knock happen, just when you are riding or all the time.
If its just when riding it could be crush rubbers in rear wheel or loose/tight chain.
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[halo123.]

it happens as soon as the engine turns over, ie all the time.
I tried the unpluging of spark plugs when it first started
and the noise pretty much stayed constant ( nb i never took the plugs out i just removed the cable so it was not sparking)
It is rather like a loud clatter that happens each time the engine turns over, and on the few times out riding i have noticed that there is no power, cant get more than 40km per hour in any gear.
ie 1st get to 20 second to 40 and does not get much faster
( do you think the clutch could cause this, as the clutch was very soft , and i was battling to get it in to gear) but i adjusted it as per the manual , and then broke the lever by dropping the bike ,( the noise was there before i did this though)what kind of noise would it make if the clutch was sticking
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Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours

[iooi]

Does the rattle go way or get less when the clutch is in or out ? If it does then its a good chance its just clutch rattle. If not could be cam chain or tappets.
Get a screwdriver to your ear and then on the engine till you locate the source of the rattle.
Low power would end to rule out clutch as it it would just rev away if its slipping. And bog down if its stuck.
If its reallly low on power could well be its a valve thats shot, or a cylinder thats got a knackered piston/rings.
Compression test time.
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[halo123.]

i did try the screw driver thing and could not really get a spcific site of origin of the noise , and it is constant there whether the bike is in gear or not . It seems to match the idling , ie if i rev the bike the noise keeps up with the revs

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Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours

[iooi]

Well unless its simply tappets/camchain.

Try a compression test to see if one cyl is lower than the rest, other than that a good service is in order.
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[halo123.]

yeah , i was going to take the head off but did not think it was from there, and have checked the tappets and cam chain , i found that the camshafts were not lined up properly , will remove the head over the weekend and try replace all the gaskets etc if pistons and rings look okay.

( As a side note am i right in assuming that there should be no air coming thru the oil filler plug, ie with the motor turning over almost like the air is being displaced by the pistons or something.

Thanks for all the help i really apreciate it
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Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours

[iooi]

How much air ???
Most likely get a bit of preasure in there due to all moving parts, but should not be too much.
If camshafts were out of line it could very well be a bent valve or three.....
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Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am......

[halo123.]

Quote:

How much air ??? Most likely get a bit of preasure in there due to all moving parts, but should not be too much. If camshafts were out of line it could very well be a bent valve or three.....

Not to much air is coming thru,
The camshaft's were 180 deg to what they should have been(ie the manual says the notches should be pointing in and they were pointing out),
but i am thinking more likely gaskets as i had to much oil in it and went on a longish trip ( with the lrp ) and it started sputtering like i was out of petrol , and it has just got worse from there .

When i listen to it it sounds as if the exhaust is not fitting properly ,(which i have checked )
but if i turn it over by hand i can hear air escaping from somewhere .
( wonderful luck i have i had a look and i have only gone 300km on the thing since i got it, but of course i bought it second hand as is )
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Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours

[iooi]

[.Chris.]

With the cam 180° out the valves may be touching the pistons - if they haven't bent as iooi says then they may have damaged the pistons. I'd take the head off and have a look.

Don't know if there's a way of checking oil pressure on your engine but if the crank's knackered then the pressure will be low. Unlikely to cause poor power though, it'll just vibrate like hell and make a racket.

Personally I'd give it a good checking over - compression, oil pressure (if possible) and making sure the carbs and ignition system are all ok. If you've got a workshop manual then it may tell you methods of checking the coil/CDI, etc.
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Chris
1985 Kawasaki Z550F

[Kickstart]

Hi

If the cams were 180 degrees out then no damage is likely. The valves positions relative to the pistons would be the same. Would probably run fine (assuming a conventional wasted spark ignition system).

But how would you know they were 180 degrees out? Turn the crank over once and timing marks on the bottom end would be still correct, and the cam timing would also now be correct.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[halo123.]

hey thanks

Quote:

Bent valves sound far more likely if thats how they were..... You sure YOU have then set right now..... As the ticking has only started since you altered them.....

the noise started after 1 i topped up on oil and
2 i used lrp instead of unleaded

i only checked the cam chain after the noise had started, and then set the cam shafts as per the manual.
it seems that it is a wasted spark system as the crank will do a full turn as per half a camshaft turn.

but please keep the ideas coming as i have almost run out of patience


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Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours

[halo123.]

I spoke to the guy who sold me the bike , And he reckons cant be piston slap as he never let the bike run dry on oil.

And i asked whether it could be the head gasket going ?
he reckons maybe.

Now i want to know what is the chances that it is a head gasket.
symptoms are as follows
1 loud clattering in time with engine idle whether under load or not.
2 No power , (nb the higher gear you bike wants to stall)
3 noise is still there if one or the other cylinders are not firing

Let me know what you guys think
as i want to know whether to try and fix it my self or what.
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Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours

[Kickstart]

Hi

You say the problem started when you changed the oil and used lrp.

The oil change could cause a problem if you over filled it with oil / underfilled it. Also if you used oil of the wrong grade (by a long way). Possible that someone has used a very heavy oil to quieten down a noisy engine, so fresh oil has lost this. If you overfilled it the chances are the air filter will be a soggy mess.

The petrol should not cause a problem. While it seems South African LRP can be a lower octane rating than normal unleaded I doubt the GS500 has any need for petrol with an octane rating anything like as high as you are giving it (Autodata book lists the UK GS500s as needing 85-95 RON fuel).

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[halo123.]

in regards to the fuel , i bought the bike second hand and was a bit of a retard and assumed that it was and old bike it would use leaded or lrp , so i went thru 1 and a half tanks of lrp , but would normally use 95 unleaded as that is the most common petrol around , and i would assume the lrp is also 95 but a leaded version. i had a look the other day at one of the gas stations and there is diesel , lrp and , 95 unleaded petrol and not any 91 ( which we used to get ).
but have not been to other gas stations so am not sure if they have discontinued 91 at some of the garages here .

Nb if it was piston slap would the bike not smoke a lot as it is not smoking excessively
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Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours

[Kickstart]

Hi

Would doubt the LRP has anything to do with it, and the octane requirements of the GS500 seem to be so low that just about anything will be fine. I don't think the GS500 would care whether it is getting leaded, unleaded or lrp.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Pete.]

Halo you can pretty-much discount the LRP as the cause of your knocking. I would suspect you have been sold an engine with a problem and whomever sold it had found a way of temporarily masking the noise, or that the problem has genuinely only developed since you bought the bike. A tired engine that's been treated sympathetically might have meny miles left in it but used slightly more aggressively (for instance by a new owner), or with less warming-up period before loading it might well expire in very short order.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[halo123.]

Now i guess the ball is in my court as to actually see whether the problem is a major one or not and sort it from there.
Nb the chap driving the bike is not an old guy and i dont think he would have been gentle on it.
Also i am quite a lightish guy and i took it easy as it is my first bigger bike after a 125cc , in other words i rode at a top speed of 140 for about 2 mins and decided to keep it lower than that as i was not completely at home with the bike yet.
( this was on a main carriage way with a max speed of 140 km so no i was not speeding)
____________________
Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours

[halo123.]

still not solved , have sent it in to the mechanic.
He reckons it sounds like a blown head gasket
will know in a few days
*edit* now he reckons it might be the crankshaft that is buggered
he is gonna strip and then quote to replace/ repair if it is ,
Reckons it will cost me a couple of thou r (in south africa)
but was not able to give a def amt . if i dont accept the quote then he will give it back in pieces.
____________________
Halo123. =Techie/geek and bike rider ,
current bikes owned ,fix me upper gs 500e missing cdi
cbr 250 virgin colours