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neatbik
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 26 Aug 2007    Post subject: high definition upscaling.. Reply with quote

Ive seen a few freeview boxes and dvd recorders/players that will upscale to 1080 - obviously it wont be as good as true HD, but how close is it? cheers Thumbs Up
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Tarmacsurfer
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 26 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm currently using a soft modded Xbox with XBMC to upscale through component to 720p on a 42" LCD. Pretty impressed by it (especially for a setup cost of less than £50), asuming that the stuff you're talking about is comparable then go for it. It's not a life changer, but the quality is noticably better.
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True Blue
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an upscaling DVD player, which does 780p/1080i. Hard to say how close it is to the real thing as I'm still waiting on my Sky HD box. I does improve the picture a fair bit though.
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syl
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PostPosted: 13:25 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

A HDTV has to display the picture at it's native resolution (which may be 1024x768, 1280x720, 1366x768 or 1920x1024). If the DVD didn't upscale the output signal, the TV would upscale it anyway.

If your TV is new and has good firmware, you'll be wasting your money. If your TV isn't so good at upscaling, you might notice a small improvement.
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True Blue
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmahon wrote:
A HDTV has to display the picture at it's native resolution (which may be 1024x768, 1280x720, 1366x768 or 1920x1024).


Not necessarily. If I play a DVD through a standard DVD player by Component. It will play at 576p. With the upscaling DVD player it plays at 720p through HDMI.
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syl
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

LCD and Plasma screens always output at their native resolution. HDTVs upscale (and/or downscale) the signal so that the screen is filled with the picture.

If it really did play at 576p* then there would be large black areas round the edge of the screen with a little picture in the middle.

https://hometheater.about.com/od/dvdbasics/qt/dvdhdtvscaling.htm

* DVD players via component generally output at 576i.
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Last edited by syl on 14:24 - 27 Aug 2007; edited 1 time in total
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True Blue
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmahon wrote:
If it really did play at 576p then there would be large black areas round the edge of the screen with a little picture in the middle.



Yes the picture was letterboxed., which is to say that the TV did not upscale it when playing through component. Which I believe is the only way I could receive a progressive picture. Your right in what your saying, but I still personally think an upscaling DVD player gives a better picture. A standard DVD player is unlikely to use HDMI either.
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True Blue
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmahon wrote:
* DVD players via component generally output at 576i.


My Pioneer DVD player at 576p...and also at 480p with a region 1 DVD. You can see that they are both progressive pictures that are letterboxed. The TV is not upscaling them.
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True Blue
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PostPosted: 14:57 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

And this is with the upscaling DVD player.
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syl
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't see the edges of the screen - does the first image go right to the edge? If so, it is being upscaled as DVD resolution is 720x576. Is the picture stretched or is the 720p picture chooped?
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True Blue
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmahon wrote:
If so, it is being upscaled as DVD resolution is 720x576.


If it was properly upscaled then surely the picture would fill the entire screen?
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syl
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

True Blue wrote:
dmahon wrote:
If so, it is being upscaled as DVD resolution is 720x576.


If it was properly upscaled then surely the picture would fill the entire screen?


Only if the DVD is in native 16:9 format - not if it was released in super-widescreen, cinema type (letterbox) format (about 2.4:1)
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True Blue
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PostPosted: 15:56 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

This display is the same regardless of what DVD I play. The white writing on the screen is not representitive of the resolution being received by the TV, it is the current display resolution ie 576p/50

Quote:
DVD players via component generally output at 576i.
This is also not true, as component is what you would use specifically to receive Proggressive scan ( in the absence of HDMI/DVId) If it is only showing interlaced, it's because that's what your player is set at, or it isn't capable of progressive. Component is what I guess most Xbox360 users are using to get progressive HD?
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syl
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

If one is showing you a letterbox picture and the other is showing a full screen, either the first is stretched or the second is being chopped. It should be fairly easy to work out which is happening. Either way, one of the upscale processors isn't very good so you're right to use the other. If it is showing the DVD as 576 lines but stretching the picture over the whole width of the screen rather than having black lines down each side as well, which is what you appear to be suggesting, then the one in the TV isn't as good as the one in the DVD player. If it's got black lines at the top/bottom and both sides, then it's not upscaling at all.

My understanding is that a DVD signal is 576i (standard PAL) and that can be carried over component. I thought that HDMI had to allow 576p (but not necessarily 576i). Some DVD players can convert interlaced to progressive.

I'm no expert in all of this, but have just spent all morning and some of yesterday researching new HDTVs as I owe myself one for getting a new job. Unfortunately I have to move house so there's probably no point in actually buying it until I move (which isn't proving to be very speedy).
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True Blue
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 27 Aug 2007    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My understanding is that a DVD signal is 576i (standard PAL) and that can be carried over component.


Yeah your right enough in saying that, but there would be little point using the component unless you want to use progressive scan, as far as I can see. I'm no expert myself, but this is how I understand it all from the equipment I'm using. Thumbs Up
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