Crashed again what am I doing wrong

[AJ]

Hi out yesterday in the rain checked tyres for tread correct pressure before setting out and 40 miles into my trip go round a tight 90 degree bend at around 20 mph and back end came round on me bit then threw me off bike took a serious beating crack in engine cover spilling my oil and handlebar totall bent lost a bit of fairing and even I got quite a few bruises after being high sided off.

This is the second time this has happened in the rain on that type of bend first time I was able to get feet down and save bike this time different bike so got caught out (all happend so bloody quick)
just for record bike was a gsxf 600

Looking at the road there was a stip of either diesel or petrol which was most probably the cause but I dont want to jack in wet weather riding or throw in the towell on bikes all together.

So any suggestions as to what I am doing wrong if anything would be really appreciated many thanks AJ

[Fawbish]

You just gotta be more aware of the surface ahead mate, and just decrease the speed a bit, and try to be smoother. Dont let it put you off, that isnt the way to go. Just keep getting back on the horse and relax your riding style. Though, if youve done it before on that corner, just treat it with more caution and respect. Also, get someone adept at this sort of stuff, and get em to check the bikes physical state (not just the tyres, but frame, swingarm, wheels even) are correct and aligned etc. If somethings out it may be causing you to over compensate on turns etc, which is shit in the wet.

Hope you get it fixed, and ride safe


EDIT:

Actually mate, the first time that you said about may have just been bad luck, happens to everyone. It might not be you at all, the deisel/petrol thing is really shit, the slightest elevation/corner/direction/speed change factored in with these materials can be f**king devastating.
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[iooi]

Think of where the tanks are on busses/lorrys. Then in the wet change your line a bit to avoid where they are most likely to spill.

To be honest there isn't much that you can do, you have just been unlucky.

Don't tense up though, relax and you will be able react a lot better if it does happen again.

Sometimes going slower will cause more of a slide, as you spend longer on the slippery bit before it bites into the good stuff again.
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[McJamweasel]

If the back end slid out then it's possible that you gassed it up too soon/too much. In the wet keep the throttle fairly steady until you are pretty much upright, then open it much more gently then in the wet. Smoothness is the key in the wet.
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[killa]

I haven't had an off since 2001, i've met diesel on the road and been through all the weather this year. I've probably had the back step out a few times, i've learnt that i don't have to do anything i don't want to.....on a nice day i will ride like a loon on occasion, riding in rain/drizzle what ever, i ride to be safe and arrive at my destination.
I have no tips really, i feel it comes with experience. This is providing you've got decent rubber on there and you're not lying to yourself about your riding.


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[G]

Different tyres handle wet weather differently. What tyres have you got?

As mentioned, keeping a good look out for surfaces that may provide a 'lack of adhesion' is always worthwhile.

You can generally push bike tyres a lot more than most would expect in the dry, but I find the opposite is true in the wet for a lot of people - the point the safety margin they give themselves is smaller than they realise and the line to be crossed is much narrower.

And as Killa points out, generally not trying too hard in the wet. Being the first time I've ridden my new bike in decent wet weather I was taking corners /really/ slowly today (slower than most of the cars on roundabouts on my short commute), as the broken leg means I don't really want to test out the limits of my bike too much.

[AJ]

Hi thansk for all feedback most appreciated, tyre on the back is a Michelin with loads of tread and a bridgestone on the front again loads of tread, my speed was very slow on that corner after previous arse twitcher I learned to respect those 90 degree corners the flowing ones I take a little faster but still looking for the patches of diesel. Down fall is you jst dont see it till its to late. Looking for parts now and maybe look at doing some advanced course to learn how to deal with situations like that.

Again thanks for all you advices and input yours sorely AJ

[Kal]

You could probably do with having matched tires.
If the back end came round it sounds like it lowsided - too much clutch maybe?
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[killa]

It’s a difficult one AJ, hard for others to advise because sometimes it can sound like you’re the problem.

Not sure how nasty that 90 degree corner was, but if it was me entering that, extreme caution would be taken, and my vision just for that corner would be limited. On a nice dry day I often come into a corner, I glace at the exit, back to road and then finally when committed I’m looking at where I’m heading to. In the wet my vision is brought down and so is my speed, 20mph sounds about right to me, but even so, at that speed you still can get into a decent lean angle. Bearing in mind you have odd tyres on (not sure how much this affects it) if there was a patch of diesel and you went into this corner on a reasonable lean angle resulting in this high side, I’d say you were unlucky.

Just out of curiosity what were your pressures?

K
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[Mister James]

At the risk of agreeing with Killa for the first time in the history of BCF, I think he's spot on.

Have a laugh on your sunny days off, but when you're plodding to work in the rain - ride like a BMW fella in corporate leathers on a BikeSafe course.

90% of my riding at the moment is on the way to work, usually at obscenely early or late hours, in the dark and/or the wet.

I'm seldom in a rush to arrive, so I take it nice and easy, take few/no risks, and allow plenty of time.

If I do end up dying on a bike, I'd rather it was in a Siggi-esque blaze of glory on a sunny day and a sportsbike, then on a wet monday morning commuting to work in the dark.
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[G]

What Michelin and what Bridgestone? How old are they?

Lots of tread doesn't mean much if the tyres don't have grip to start with. Mis-matched tyres can be a problem, but so can a set of not very good matched tyres .

I'd recommend getting a copy of "Motorcycle Roadcraft: A police rider's handbook" for starting to look into

[killa]

[ram_doom]

In addition to whats already been said, you should try to glide around on the bike, as smoothly as you can, gentle on the brakes and the throttle and slow letting the clutch out whilst going down the gears approaching bends.

You should lean the bike in gently. Slapping it on its side with any hint of aggression is liable to break traction very suddenly (captain obvious today).
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[Mister James]

[jimbothe]

You didnt mention any so I can only assume there werent but also be aware for fallen leaves. Fallen leaves on a bend + rain = offy.

Obviously not all of the time but it is just another hazard to look forward to at this time of year
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[killa]

[AJ]

Loads more input many thanks

first of tyre preassure as stated in book 33 front 36 rear

didnt occur to me that different tyres would have that much effect but reading about tyres is a night mare I think a course would be a good idea as there is so much data available on them that its hard to know whats right and whats wrong.

As for the bend took it down to second gear using engine breaking to slow up before the bend so no clutch or brakes used just let the bike coast round the corner untill straight then open up slowly but as stated before the throttle on bit back end came around and there was a lot of spill on road a big rainbow. I pushed bike to a safe location and looked like who ever spilled on the corner that caused my wipeout was loosing a lot for the next corner had a shitload on that.
So I will get book recommeded get matched tyres, repair bike and look at getting some more skills in this type of situation.

Many thanks for all your input which is greatly appreciated. AJ

[G]

First issue I see is 'coast' around corner. You should take corners with a slightl positive throttle. This puts the weight distribution on to the rear, which has a bigger contact patch, so should give about equal pressure per square cm of tire on the road.

The weight distribution was probably relatively on the front, so when you did get on the power the rear went from having not much at all to quite a bit. If you add this to a lack of adhesion, you get a low-side, rather than rear wheel slipping a bit as it enters the area under a steady throttle.

As I say, matched tyres won't always help if they aren't /good/ matched tires and in some cases mis-matched tires can be the best bet for a mix of grip and longevity.

[LeeWat]

AJ, keep a keen eye out for the rainbow on the floor, sure sign of diesel. I lost the front going at about 10mph turning off a main road onto a side road years ago, bloody busses........

Lee.
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[Noxious89123]

[SoND]

[TheShaggyDA]

[Ariel Badger]

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[G]